Doctor Asked For A "Kind" Nurse

[LasVegasRN]

Let me preface this thread by stating a few things:

1. I'm not posting this thread to bash certain religions, I'm posting to vent, gain understanding, and get a variety of views.

2. Whatever your belief, please respect the beliefs of others.

That said, I admit to not understanding how parents can stand by and watch their child bleed to death.

Teenager, throwing up blood for 2 days, H & H 6.1 and 17.0. Platelets 14. WBC 1.0. Pancytopenia. A religion that does not allow blood products or transfusions. Essentially we will be watching this patient die. As the majority of us know, some fresh frozen plasma, units of packed cells, the ability to SAFELY do an EGD and the patient would be discharged home in about 2 days.

Instead, in 4 hours when the next CBC was done, the Hgb was down to 5.8.

I overheard the attending doc asking the charge nurse to assign a "kind" nurse as this was a "difficult" case. I felt that was unnecessary, because as hard as it is for all of us to watch this, we still treat the patient and family with compassion.

My main point: I'm hoping someone could explain to me, how in the world can you stand by and allow your child to die?

Harsh question, and I'm sure an age-old question, but I do not and can not understand it.

[fab4fan]

Wow...I could reply to this, but only if bashing stops. What was said about JW was inaccurate.

[babynurselsa, RN]

I have taken care of several neonates that the state took custody of and did recieve blood.

[geleesa]

I agree with the question why bring the child to the hospital if the parents refuse life saving treatments.

I think that the people who do not believe in blood products shouldnt be "looked down apon" because their beliefs are soo deeply rooted

Maybe they brought the child to the hospital hoping for an alternative soultions? What about those religions where the members dont believe in medical tx at all?

Its heart breaking to watch someone die and know that you can save them....

But are you REALLY saving them??

We are all entiltle to live our lives the way we see fit and raise our children accordingly....... who are we to tell these people that they are making a mistake by not infusing blood products into their child?

As a healthcare worker, there are alot or religious acts that I dont understand but we shouldn't look down on these people because we dont understand.

maybe taking the time to talk to the parents and LEARN WHY they dont accept bld prods instead of assuming they dont care about their childs health....

We may not agree with other peoples decisions, but in the long run....its not OUR consious we have to live with

its theirs (hopefully i didnt sound too preachy....huh?)

geleesa

[Flynurse]

I was just thinking....this would really really bite if this teenager was 17...and just months of making his own decisions!

[Mimi2RN, ASN, RN]

How old is this teenager? And how can the doctor go along with this? She should be discharged home to die. It is the parents decision, and they should be the ones doing all the care.

Unfortunately I have no patience with JW. r/t my ex's family and tx of their kids. I would be unable to take care of a patient like this poor girl.

[Disablednurse]

fab4, what part about the JW was inaccurate? This is what I always believed about them.

[hoolahan, ASN, RN]

I can try to understand that, but in all honesty, if it were me, I would covert to heathensim and get the transfusion that would save my child's life!! It is really sad. I have also only read about the cases where the parent's rights won out. Will they accept epogen injections?? Take iron supplement? (I know the iron can't be given since I am assuming the child is NPO, but what about the epogen??)

[fab4fan]

I am one. It would be better if the exp. directly from the official webpage, because they do a much better job of explaining it than I could on a BB.

If there is interest, I can put in the link; there are lots of phony ones out there, BTW. I just don't want anyone to think I'm trying to get converts.

[liberalrn]

Hey fab4! Nice to see you here! All I can say is that that is what happened. I couldn't make the woman understand that she had no milk b/c she was near death. No slam intended! She was the palest woman I have ever seen ( and I have vitiligo!).

[fab4fan]

OK...I went into the site and just copied a brief statement about treatment of JW minors.

LEGAL CONCERNS AND MINORS

Witnesses readily sign the American Medical Association form relieving physicians and hospitals of liability,13 and most Witnesses carry a dated, witnessed Medical Alert card prepared in consultation with medical and legal authorities. These documents are binding on the patient (or his estate) and offer protection to physicians, for Justice Warren Burger held that a malpractice proceeding "would appear unsupported" where such a waiver had been signed. Also, commenting on this in an analysis of "compulsory medical treatment and religious freedom," Paris14 wrote: "One commentator who surveyed the literature reported, 'I have not been able to find any authority for the statement that the physician would incur . . . criminal . . . liability by his failure to force a transfusion on an unwilling patient.' The risk seems more the product of a fertile legal mind than a realistic possibility."

Care of minors presents the greatest concern, often resulting in legal action against parents under child-neglect statutes. But such actions are questioned by many physicians and attorneys familiar with Witness cases, who believe that Witness parents seek good medical care for their children. Not desirous of shirking their parental responsibility or of shifting it to a judge or other third party, Witnesses urge that consideration be given to the family's religious tenets. Dr. A. D. Kelly, former Secretary of the Canadian Medical Association, wrote15 that "parents of minors and the next of kin of unconscious patients possess the right to interpret the will of the patient. . . . I do not admire the proceedings of a moot court assembled at 2:00 AM to remove a child from his parent's custody."

It is axiomatic that parents have a voice in the care of their children, such as when the risk-benefit potentials of surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy are faced. For moral reasons that go beyond the issue of the risk of transfusion,16 Witness parents ask that therapies be used that are not religiously prohibited. This accords with the medical tenet of treating "the whole person," not overlooking the possible lasting psychosocial damage of an invasive procedure that violates a family's fundamental beliefs. Often, large centers around the country having experience with the Witnesses now accept patient transfers from institutions unwilling to treat Witnesses, even pediatric cases.

[sunnygirl272]

Originally posted by fab4fan

Wow...I could reply to this, but only if bashing stops. What was said about JW was inaccurate.

what bashing? and please correct the inaccuracies?

[LasVegasRN]

The patient is 18, thus able to make own decision.

I still don't understand the purpose of seeking medical attention if they are not going to accept it.

Nothing is going to save this patient except blood products. Period. I still ask what is the point of coming to the hospital, and shouldn't Hospice be offered as an alternative since death has been chosen?