Do you work under the fear of being fired due to age?

caliotter3 · Apr 14, 2012

What people tell others does not necessarily have to be the case. A form of playing both ends against the middle. If I were part of the problem instead of part of the solution, I might try to throw people off my trail too.

JerseyBSN · Apr 14, 2012

Sorry, I'm not understanding your reply?

GitanoRN, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 14, 2012

unquestionably, this is a delicate subject and one to tread with caution simply because managers don't make policy decisions, they adhere to what administration has ordered them to perform. having said that, this is when we as nurses need to come together in order to resolve their differences for our own peace of mind, our careers and the well being of the facility. lastly, i'll quote aesop with the following "united we stand divide we fall".

caliotter3 · Apr 14, 2012

Another way of telling you that the people who talk to you are telling you what they want to tell you. Telling you what you want to hear, or telling you what puts them in a good light, or telling you what they think their boss would want them to tell you. It is not always wise to talk against administration when you want to keep your own job. The person at the bottom of the totem pole can complain about the job as much as they want as long as the boss does not hear it, but the first line supervisor or low level manager has to watch what they say.

JerseyBSN · Apr 15, 2012

I am not a seasoned nurse and feel like I am at the bottom of the totem pole. I would not dare ever bringing up this issue at work. I'm just curious as to what the heck is going on. Like I said you would think management and administration would have to be on the same page.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 15, 2012

there is currently a palpable low morale among the nurses in the very large teaching hospital where i work. quite a few seasoned nurses have been fired for seemingly frivolous reasons. working hard, well-liked, never call in, have never been in trouble and suddenly fired. many nurses say they are trying to find new jobs because they are afraid they will be suddenly fired.
this issue was brought up in a staff meeting. we were told that there were good reasons why these nurses had been fired. if we wanted to find new jobs they would be glad to give us good references. many have left over this issue.
to make it more confusing. the cno is verbally asking, trying to determine why they cannot retain rn's? stating it's so expensive to orient nurses and then they leave for no good reason. all are afraid to speak up for fear of getting fired by their manager. seems as though the managers and the administration are not on the same page.
it seems they should be on the exact same page. they go to the same meetings regarding staff, staffing and budgets. what would explain the difference?

staff salaries come out of the unit budget. yours wouldn't be the first nm to fire senior nurses at the top of the pay scale so that they can hire two new grads in their place. it's rather short sighted -- new grads don't stay very long usually, and the senior nurse probably would have stayed much longer and can precept the new grads hired to replace those hired last year who have already left.

in my last hospital, fully a third of the staff had been there ten years or longer. the manager announced at a staff meeting that anyone who would "hang out in the icu for a decade or so" had to be purely mediocre at best. within six weeks all but one of those senior nurses had resigned -- just in time for the holidays. what a mess! i saw the holiday schedule, but my last day was dec. 15.

tokmom, BSN, RN · Apr 15, 2012

You must not be union. Firing nurses for no valid reason would never fly.

lindarn · Apr 15, 2012

If I were you, I would start to practice what I call, "defensive employment". Keep track of what you do in your assignments. Write your assignment on a notepad. Make an hourly, "cheat sheet", with medications, treatments, etc, on it that you check off as the day goes on, updating it when new orders are written.

Make note of volunteering for OT, committees that you belong to, other attaboys that you will be able to use to defend yourself.

This will give you ammunition if you get fired. Find out who gets hired in your place. How old are they, what and how much experience do they have, etc.

This will give you an edge if you get fired, and you can give this information to an attorney, and let him/her take over.

Most age discrimination lawsuits don't work because the individuals have little evidence to use. It is hard to prove.

If they fire you with vague, trumped up reasons, ask them, "can you give me an example of that"? Put them on the stop.

Make sure that you keep the sheets. No one has to know what you are doing. You and your attorney will be very glad that you did.

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Apr 15, 2012

Tokmom, just thought I'd reply to your comment. None of the hospitals in my area are union; as a matter of fact, there are precious few unions in the deep south, period. Personally, I live in a "work at will" state, which means you can be fired without cause. (You can quit without cause, too.)

caliotter3 · Apr 15, 2012

I am not a seasoned nurse and feel like I am at the bottom of the totem pole. I would not dare ever bringing up this issue at work. I'm just curious as to what the heck is going on. Like I said you would think management and administration would have to be on the same page.

You would be surprised to learn how NOT on the same page these groups can be, regardless of what is coming out of their mouths when they are speaking to others in the organization.

kcmylorn · Apr 15, 2012

Jersey is notorious for age discrimination. I know this first hand. You would be best advised to follow lindarn's advisement- keep a detailed record.

I have seen managers- start to pick at documentation. If you use an acceptable abbreviation - they will play stupid and ask you what it is, like the fools they are. They will ask nurses to acount for their every move- example: if you spend a long time in a PIA patient's room to keep the cranky pants in isolation whose shouting "all you nurses are stupid, no one on that night shift knows what their doing, get this tray out of here!!" from reporting you and every nurse on the unit- make sure you document every bit of your bedside stay in that room. Write a book if you have to. There will always be some coworker who will say "they can't find you".

If managment wants to get rid of you, they will find a way. If a patient says something good about you- don't count on you ever finding it out. I've seen words twisted, and one word can mean the difference between good and bad. Don't discuss your personal business- they will find a way to use that against you.

The last hospital I worked at- they got rid of every nurse that had 20 + yrs there, handing out early retirement packages. Yes, we all know "they can't do that, it's illegal" but they did. These nurses were threatened- they were told" take the package and go quietly or stay and be fired and loose everything--you worked for for 20+years" I saw one nurse had her husband come in and pick her up. She walked out of the building on her last day holding on to her husband's hand for dear life - he was a witness just incase they said she did something on the way out and had an excuse to fire her so she would loose her pension. She worked there for over 30 some years, right out of nursing school. She was only in her 50's. The hospital was in financial trouble and this was how they helped get themselves out of trouble. If you have been there long enough to be"vested" into the pension- usually around 5 yrs- start looking over your shoulder- they do not want to pay out any pensions

Then they start attacking nurses with chronic health problems- could be anything HTN, Diabetes, cancer and lupus are big ones for them to pick on. i know of nurses who have had to make doctors appt only on their days off- very difficult if they work only weekdays 8-430. I've seen nurses given a bad go of it by managment in the middle of chemo cycles- the choice is - the job/health insurance or stop the chemo. That's quite an ultimadum for a healthcare institution that professes to "put patient's first" and patient satisfaction. That happened to a nurse from L&D with breast cancer- her nursing director fired her for too many call outs during chemo. God is going to get that women for that. It enough tomake you:barf01:

Then after you've been fired for some ambigious reason- which doesn't even make sence, try getting another position in the hospital after 50yr old- They actuall put in witing "not the experience they were looking for. Application for an oncology nurse- with 18yr experience in oncology:nono: Nurse recruiter, Bernadette, go one nasty e-mail back