BSN is a joke - page 6

I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between... Read More

  1. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from lifelearningrn
    Being able to analyze, do and write research is an important aspect of having an education. Evidence based practice starts with the ability to read peer reviewed journals and analyze the evidence. Seeing more than just the person laying in the bed (as in learning how to see the health of a community as it relates to said person) is part of being a nurse. It may seem useless to your bedside practice, but I assure you, it is not.

    If you want to be a technical nurse that's all about the hands on skills, by all means, stay that way. If you want to continuing growing your knowledge base and education, continue on.
    This does not require a degree. SMH.
  2. by   DnCali
    Cowboyardee, I disagree with your conclusion that nursing education is failing because a BSN can not identify certain rhythms on a monitor. Once a nurse enters a speciality area they usually acquire more specialized knowledge through on the job training and training classes provided by unit based educators. When I worked on a cardiac step down unit, I was required to take hospital sponsored classes and competency exams/check offs related to tele. Nursing programs are there to provide a broad base and set the new nurse up as a novice. It is through practice and learning that becoming a competent provider is achieved. When I became a bone marrow transplant nurse; I learned most of the competencies and specifics about this complicated process and the diseases BMT treats, through hands on and educational requirements provided by the unit. Just because one has a BSN does not mean the individual has in depth knowledge for all specialities. I reflect on Benner's stages of clinical competency...with many years of experience, I was a novice when I started oncology and BMT.
    Last edit by DnCali on Oct 12 : Reason: error
  3. by   Flatline
    Quote from Wuzzie
    This does not require a degree. SMH.
    No, but the tools acquired while obtaining your degree make it far easier to understand the subtleties hidden within research that are oh so important.

    Hell, nothing requires any kind of degree. I am sure there is a rocket scientist who is self taught and a lawyer who just read a bunch of books at a library. We've all seen Good Will Hunting.
  4. by   llg
    Quote from Cowboyardee

    Some sanity please. The problem with RN to BSN programs isn't that they are more education. It's that they're crappy education. They don't have to be.
    From what I have seen (which is a lot) ... Many staff nurses look for the easiest school with the least amount of work. They don't go choose to go to the more rigorous programs because they are "too hard" ... or have "too many requirements" etc. So they choose the easiest, quickest, cheapest school they can find and then complain about the quality.

    If nurses want quality, then they are going to have to be willing to invest time, effort and money in their education -- and many would rather just complain.
  5. by   ldrnicuguy
    Quote from Wuzzie
    I agree with you on one hand and disagree on the other. Yes, we need one entry point to nursing and yes, it should be at the BSN level. However, forcing people to go back to school after years of experience is nonsense. If a nurse wants to stay at the bedside why should the be forced to get their BSN or MSN? So what if it opens up other opportunities...there's absolutely nothing wrong with staying at the bedside. Let them make that decision for themselves. I also don't believe that an experienced nurse must get a BSN to be able to properly understand and implement care based on EBP, nor does not having a BSN preclude them from writing a scholarly paper. I was published and taught nationally in my area of expertise as a Diploma nurse of all things. Nobody cared one bit about the letters after my name. They cared about my expertise and knowledge that was being imparted to them. I've also participated in major research projects that have impacted what all of you do on a daily basis. I learned the research process from my colleagues. It really isn't rocket science. But because I participate in these kind of activities it makes sense for me to further my education however the nurse who intends to stay at the bedside would be better served, as a previous poster mentioned, by becoming certified in their area of interest and making sure that they choose high-quality and pertinent continuing education.
    I'm not sure I suggested that people should be forced to go back, in fact, I actively avoided that topic of discussion. I was also very clear to focus on the aggregate impact to nursing and did point out the successful diploma nurses vs unsuccessful doctorate prepared ones. I definitely didn't suggest that there is anything wrong with staying at the bedside and won't entertain that discussion at all. What I am saying is that the overall and long-term professional benefits in multiple areas from a bachelor's level education are worth it for nursing as a group. At the aggregate level, the additional education particularly with research, critical thinking, and leadership is beneficial.
  6. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Flatline
    No, but the tools acquired while obtaining your degree make it far easier to understand the subtleties hidden within research that are oh so important.

    Hell, nothing requires any kind of degree. I am sure there is a rocket scientist who is self taught and a lawyer who just read a bunch of books at a library. We've all seen Good Will Hunting.
    Yes but those tools are not only available to BSNs and to imply that those of us who have learned to use them in the course of our careers are poseurs and incapable of understanding the "subtleties" is elitist and divisive.
  7. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from ldrnicuguy
    I'm not sure I suggested that people should be forced to go back, in fact, I actively avoided that topic of discussion. I was also very clear to focus on the aggregate impact to nursing and did point out the successful diploma nurses vs unsuccessful doctorate prepared ones. I definitely didn't suggest that there is anything wrong with staying at the bedside and won't entertain that discussion at all. What I am saying is that the overall and long-term professional benefits in multiple areas from a bachelor's level education are worth it for nursing as a group. At the aggregate level, the additional education particularly with research, critical thinking, and leadership is beneficial.

    I never alleged you said this but it has been implied in some of the posts here.

    And to be clear there is no component of the bsn program that produces nurses who are better critical thinkers than any other nursing education. Frankly I'm in the camp that believes much of our critical thinking skills are innate and we build on those regardless of our educational background.
  8. by   Flatline
    Quote from Wuzzie
    Yes but those tools are not only available to BSNs and to imply that those of us who have learned to use them in the course of our careers are poseurs and incapable of understanding the "subtleties" is elitist and divisive.
    Do you like apples?

    I did not state, nor do I believe I insinuated, that the tools were the sole domain of of BSNs. I was only saying that the tools acquired by the BSN nurses make it easier for them. Some of those basic tools are common to every BSN nurse.

    Not every diploma or ASN nurse has those tools. Good or bad, useful or not, that is the truth.
  9. by   Flatline
    Quote from Wuzzie
    I never alleged you said this but it has been implied in some of the posts here.

    And to be clear there is no component of the bsn program that produces nurses who are better critical thinkers than any other nursing education. Frankly I'm in the camp that believes much of our critical thinking skills are innate and we build on those regardless of our educational background.
    I want you to know that I appreciate and value you, regardless of your background, education, or chosen specialty or job.
  10. by   chacha82
    You can fuss or you can just do it. Luckily my work pays for me to pursue my BSN. Yes, it's no fun to work full-time and then have to do homework on my days off but I tell myself it won't be forever. I will say I have taken some very interesting classes, some had nothing to do with nursing. I took a class about the Vietnam War as an elective that made a big impression on me. I also took an End-of-Life care class that forever changed the way I see some things in nursing.
  11. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Flatline
    I did not state, nor do I believe I insinuated, that the tools were the sole domain of of BSNs. I was only saying that the tools acquired by the BSN nurses make it easier for them. Some of those basic tools are common to every BSN nurse.

    Not every diploma or ASN nurse has those tools. Good or bad, useful or not, that is the truth.
    Except when they're not. That's my point. There are nurses of every flavor that have those tools in their arsenal even as newbies. It depends primarily on the person not the education.
  12. by   OldDude
    This is from my experience...I don't know about the "BS" part but there was very little relevance to actual nursing in my nursing school; just a mechanism to get the "paper" so you could start your real education. It appeared most of the instructors were there as an alternative to retirement.
  13. by   RunnerNurse09
    Quote from nurseguy22
    I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between what I do at work and the class work I need to do. It doesn'y apply at all. I have to take family care classes and informatics with very little practical application. I have to memorize all the rules of APA. My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't. It's like there is no appreciation in BSN education for what nursing is really about. At no time will I EVER do a CFIM on my patient or a PEEK readiness assessment. Get real. Where is the disconnect? Everyone I talk to say's the same thing about their BSN program, that it is completely useless. Who decided that nurses needed extensive training in social work and paper formatting?!?! I don't deal with social work. I have a team of social workers for that. At no time will I ever be in a patients home trying to improve the communication between family members ect. There are family counselors ect for that. It isn't my job! Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value. I would drop out and find a new school, but everyone I talk to has the same opinion about where ever they went. Basically healthcare has become obsessed with accolades, but forgot that those accolades were supposed to represent a level of expertise.

    Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education??!?!?
    Firstly, I think it depends on where you go for your BSN. I took an advanced assessment course and a genetics course. Also, my bachelor's degree is really where we got into evidence based practice, which does apply to clinical practice. How are you going to know which methods work best for your patient? You mentioned communication, but communication amongst family members and patients is huge in nursing. I agree that APA formatting is a headache, but its the way things are done. Learning to sift through research to advance nursing and other disciplines does actually matter. What I learned in my BSN curriculum really helped me grow as a nurse. I am sorry yours didnt.

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