BSN is a joke

JKL33 · Oct 12, 2017

But how to bring the same passion and expertise that diploma and ADN nurses have historically brought to the bedside will continue to be a challenge.
As with anything we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Well, the reason I became involved in this discussion is because I believe this question ^ relates directly back to the OP's basic premise, whether one agrees with that premise in totality or not. If the goal of the educational program is not to produce someone who is more than a "novice" at the role itself, you have a problem.

Meeshie · Oct 12, 2017

Again, Magnet has no requirements for the type of degree held by floor nurses.

True. But there is a requirement for management. 100% of nurse managers must have at least a BSN, if not higher. So if you have any aspirations for moving up the food chain....

What everyone is confusing that with is the Institute of Medicine that introduced a goal that 80% of floor nurses have a BSN by 2020... which is what so many hospitals are pushing for.

lifelearningrn, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2017

Being able to analyze, do and write research is an important aspect of having an education. Evidence based practice starts with the ability to read peer reviewed journals and analyze the evidence. Seeing more than just the person laying in the bed (as in learning how to see the health of a community as it relates to said person) is part of being a nurse. It may seem useless to your bedside practice, but I assure you, it is not.

If you want to be a technical nurse that's all about the hands on skills, by all means, stay that way. If you want to continuing growing your knowledge base and education, continue on.

JKL33 · Oct 12, 2017

If you want to be a technical nurse that's all about the hands on skills, by all means, stay that way. If you want to continuing growing your knowledge base and education, continue on.

For pete's sake, the two are not mutually exclusive!!

Wuzzie · Oct 12, 2017

Thank you for the discussion. Regarding the two ideas bolded above:
1. BSN entry-to-practice holds every promise of giving the bedside nurse a better standing! I'm in favor. At the same time, if the idea is to simply churn through bedside BSNs who are there temporarily while on their way to "bigger and better" things, well then, no. Just as we don't expect our child's 5th grade teacher to be someone merely biding his/her time in the "menial" work of teaching children until s/he can "advance" into something more self-important, we should aim for a situation where bedside nurses are prepared as professionals and then treated as such, with the importance of their daily contributions acknowledged not with candy and the adult equivalent of sticker charts, but a real place at the table.
2. I absolutely agree.

Agree! Agree! Agree!

From a professional standpoint I would agree that the BSN should be the entry point for nursing but I just don't understand where the idea comes from that nurses who want to stay at the bedside are somehow less smart than the ones who want to move into other roles. Or that other roles are "bigger and better". The bedside nurse is just as professional as the nurse educator or nurse manager or any other nursing role.

I've said it many times before. Nursing education in any form is just the foundation. It is the responsibility of each of us, as nurses, to continue our education throughout our careers regardless of where we started. My foundation is diploma nursing but that has not stopped me from being on par, professionally and clinically, with my BSN and even MSN educated colleagues.

Wuzzie · Oct 12, 2017

Being able to analyze, do and write research is an important aspect of having an education. Evidence based practice starts with the ability to read peer reviewed journals and analyze the evidence. Seeing more than just the person laying in the bed (as in learning how to see the health of a community as it relates to said person) is part of being a nurse. It may seem useless to your bedside practice, but I assure you, it is not.
If you want to be a technical nurse that's all about the hands on skills, by all means, stay that way. If you want to continuing growing your knowledge base and education, continue on.

This does not require a degree. SMH.

DnCali · Oct 12, 2017

Cowboyardee, I disagree with your conclusion that nursing education is failing because a BSN can not identify certain rhythms on a monitor. Once a nurse enters a speciality area they usually acquire more specialized knowledge through on the job training and training classes provided by unit based educators. When I worked on a cardiac step down unit, I was required to take hospital sponsored classes and competency exams/check offs related to tele. Nursing programs are there to provide a broad base and set the new nurse up as a novice. It is through practice and learning that becoming a competent provider is achieved. When I became a bone marrow transplant nurse; I learned most of the competencies and specifics about this complicated process and the diseases BMT treats, through hands on and educational requirements provided by the unit. Just because one has a BSN does not mean the individual has in depth knowledge for all specialities. I reflect on Benner's stages of clinical competency...with many years of experience, I was a novice when I started oncology and BMT.

Flatline, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2017

This does not require a degree. SMH.

No, but the tools acquired while obtaining your degree make it far easier to understand the subtleties hidden within research that are oh so important.

Hell, nothing requires any kind of degree. I am sure there is a rocket scientist who is self taught and a lawyer who just read a bunch of books at a library. We've all seen Good Will Hunting.

llg, PhD, RN · Oct 12, 2017

Some sanity please. The problem with RN to BSN programs isn't that they are more education. It's that they're crappy education. They don't have to be.

From what I have seen (which is a lot) ... Many staff nurses look for the easiest school with the least amount of work. They don't go choose to go to the more rigorous programs because they are "too hard" ... or have "too many requirements" etc. So they choose the easiest, quickest, cheapest school they can find and then complain about the quality.

If nurses want quality, then they are going to have to be willing to invest time, effort and money in their education -- and many would rather just complain.

labordude, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2017

I agree with you on one hand and disagree on the other. Yes, we need one entry point to nursing and yes, it should be at the BSN level. However, forcing people to go back to school after years of experience is nonsense. If a nurse wants to stay at the bedside why should the be forced to get their BSN or MSN? So what if it opens up other opportunities...there's absolutely nothing wrong with staying at the bedside. Let them make that decision for themselves. I also don't believe that an experienced nurse must get a BSN to be able to properly understand and implement care based on EBP, nor does not having a BSN preclude them from writing a scholarly paper. I was published and taught nationally in my area of expertise as a Diploma nurse of all things. Nobody cared one bit about the letters after my name. They cared about my expertise and knowledge that was being imparted to them. I've also participated in major research projects that have impacted what all of you do on a daily basis. I learned the research process from my colleagues. It really isn't rocket science. But because I participate in these kind of activities it makes sense for me to further my education however the nurse who intends to stay at the bedside would be better served, as a previous poster mentioned, by becoming certified in their area of interest and making sure that they choose high-quality and pertinent continuing education.

I'm not sure I suggested that people should be forced to go back, in fact, I actively avoided that topic of discussion. I was also very clear to focus on the aggregate impact to nursing and did point out the successful diploma nurses vs unsuccessful doctorate prepared ones. I definitely didn't suggest that there is anything wrong with staying at the bedside and won't entertain that discussion at all. What I am saying is that the overall and long-term professional benefits in multiple areas from a bachelor's level education are worth it for nursing as a group. At the aggregate level, the additional education particularly with research, critical thinking, and leadership is beneficial.

Wuzzie · Oct 12, 2017

No, but the tools acquired while obtaining your degree make it far easier to understand the subtleties hidden within research that are oh so important.
Hell, nothing requires any kind of degree. I am sure there is a rocket scientist who is self taught and a lawyer who just read a bunch of books at a library. We've all seen Good Will Hunting.

Yes but those tools are not only available to BSNs and to imply that those of us who have learned to use them in the course of our careers are poseurs and incapable of understanding the "subtleties" is elitist and divisive.

Wuzzie · Oct 12, 2017

I'm not sure I suggested that people should be forced to go back, in fact, I actively avoided that topic of discussion. I was also very clear to focus on the aggregate impact to nursing and did point out the successful diploma nurses vs unsuccessful doctorate prepared ones. I definitely didn't suggest that there is anything wrong with staying at the bedside and won't entertain that discussion at all. What I am saying is that the overall and long-term professional benefits in multiple areas from a bachelor's level education are worth it for nursing as a group. At the aggregate level, the additional education particularly with research, critical thinking, and leadership is beneficial.

I never alleged you said this but it has been implied in some of the posts here.

And to be clear there is no component of the bsn program that produces nurses who are better critical thinkers than any other nursing education. Frankly I'm in the camp that believes much of our critical thinking skills are innate and we build on those regardless of our educational background.