'Borderline' students? - page 6
Ok, this is a vent. :( In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those... Read More
Dec 28, '05Don't these students have to pass the same NCLEX as everyone else in the country? Remember, the boards are the great equalizer! No matter how much coddling a student gets to pass and get the degree from their school, they STILL have to take that board exam! (YEA) That's why we have a board exam. Otherwise the profession would have no standards.
Dec 28, '05Why don't you focus on your own education and career and try not to get so worked up about other people and how unfair the system is. Just do YOUR best and be the best nurse you can be. Don't worry about the others. You don't have to have solve the whole nursing crisis or anything else now. Put your energy into developing yourself.
Dec 28, '05Quote from Hellllllo NurseI have to agree with this one.I am totally against lowering standards and providing excessive support to students who can't make it in school.
There's not going to be anyone to hold their hands for them when pts lives are on the line. They need to learn stand on their own two feet.
I just finished a particularly difficult semester with a very tough instructor. Granted, a lot of her test questions, etc. were unfair BUT, if you studied, you still did ok in her class.
Well ... all of these borderline students went to the Dean and were organizing all of these meetings to protest this instructor because they were failing. But I refused to participate because:
1) they didn't read the books and assigned material
2) they didn't read the syllabus
3) they claimed the instructor didn't cover material in class when, in fact, she did
They expected everything to be spoon fed to them, but nursing school simply doesn't work that way. They would claim that all of this material wasn't covered in the books or syllabus when, in fact, it was. Of course, they didn't have the slightest clue because they never even looked at it.
And even with the material that was covered in lecture, they'd claim that it wasn't covered at all. I'd have to correct them and tell them it was covered because I personally tape and transcribe every single lecture verbatum.
I know for a fact that most of these people didn't study and they don't want to study, they just want less work. They were always bugging me for my transcripts and reading notes because they wanted the quickest short cuts possible to try to pass their exams.
If you start cutting breaks for borderline students, or give them "extra help" of any kind .... they're just going to take advantage of it and not study even more. It will just make the situation worse.
Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 28, '05
May 1, '06Quote from ShandyLynnRNI must comment on this one. I am a 4.0 student who also works 45-50 hours per week. I don't think I am better than anyone but it's also hard for me to sympathize when I have already proved to myself that I can do ANYTHING that I set my mind on. This isn't just for me - anyone can do anything they set their mind on. I wasn't lucky or born with a silver spoon in my mouth - I just don't mind hard work. In fact, I am the first in my family to even attend college. But I have already proved to myself that if you want something bad enough, then you will do WHATEVER (within reason, nothing bad here) you need to do to get it. Maybe these people don't want to be a nurse as bad as they say they do. But when you are TRULY passionate about something, then failure isn't an option - you FIND a way to succeed. I don't agree with lowering the standards. Nursing is serious business - it's about people's LIVES - this isn't for just anyone! Higher standards should = better, more competent nurses.Then there are those that did great in school, and think they are better than everyone else. Just because they got a 4.0 GPA.Last edit by a_clay on May 1, '06
May 1, '06Quote from rn/writerThis sums it up PERFECTLY!It's far better to "raise up the student" than to lower the standards.
May 1, '06My school lets you take a nursing class two times, then it's too bad. The entrance qualifications aren't much, just pass the NET and have at least an 18 on the ACT. However, you also must pass ENG I, PSY I, and A&P I before you can even apply to the program. You must pass these with a C. The english class is easy, the psychology class is medium to medium hard depending on which teacher you get, and the A&P class is hard to super hard depending on the teacher. That is the school's efforts to weed out people before they get into nursing and screw up their chances of ever getting through by failing one of the nursing classes. It works a little, but our program is reputedly one of the more difficult in our region, so even when slackers make it through, they get eaten alive during the first real nursing class. I don't think there's enough emphasis on how difficult nursing school really is. People just think, wow, I can go to school for two years and be a nurse. Well, they are disillusioned pretty quickly around here. However, I do believe that those with a genuine desire to learn but still have difficulty should have help made available to them. But, they should be held to the same standards as everyone else.
May 1, '06Okay, I'm going to address this from a mother's point of view.
My senior in high school is 'academically challenged'. He's a great kid, does very well in science, but math is beyond him. Additionally, he does extremely poorly in any standardize test. He gets help at school for certain subjects, and he will graduate this May.
I also have a junior in high school. Does very well academically and in sports. Have been getting letters DAILY from colleges trying to interest him in attending their school. So we've been getting info on the admission standards to get into a lot of different schools.
Here's my beef.
Every school wants overachievers, they all want valedictorians. Hey, only one kid gets to be valedictorian, I don't care if they're brilliant.
they want them to be ranked in the top 25% of their class. They want brilliant ATC scores. if not, too bad. go somewhere else.
What are the other 75% of the kids supposed to do? We're talking about the MAJORITY of graduating kids.
Used to be they'd go to work at a local factory, or other mindless kind of job. Do you know any factories hiring? Do you know any factories not worried about closing their doors? I don't.
So here's my thing....
Maybe we do need to give some kids some "extra help" to make a schools' standard. I'm not saying they should just get into programs and have the standards lowered. My son just needs a little extra "jolt" to make his brain accept info you and I take for granted.
We have to accept that the world is changing, and we have to change with it.
May 1, '06How can one be a good nurse if you cant sympathize with someone. i thought in nursing you had to posses qualities such as sympathy. If you cannot sympathize with fellow students who are not doing very well, then why would anyone think that you would sympathize with your patients.
May 1, '06Quote from amyindallasWhoo! Are you in nursing school yet? It's way different than pre reqs. It's not particularly hard, just a lot of info.I must comment on this one. I am a 4.0 student who also works 45-50 hours per week. I don't think I am better than anyone but it's also hard for me to sympathize when I have already proved to myself that I can do ANYTHING that I set my mind on. This isn't just for me - anyone can do anything they set their mind on. I wasn't lucky or born with a silver spoon in my mouth - I just don't mind hard work. In fact, I am the first in my family to even attend college. But I have already proved to myself that if you want something bad enough, then you will do WHATEVER (within reason, nothing bad here) you need to do to get it. Maybe these people don't want to be a nurse as bad as they say they do. But when you are TRULY passionate about something, then failure isn't an option - you FIND a way to succeed. I don't agree with lowering the standards. Nursing is serious business - it's about people's LIVES - this isn't for just anyone! Higher standards should = better, more competent nurses.
To address the original issue I totally agree that just because one has a 4.0 that does not make them automatically a good nurse. But, there is something to be said for studying and taking responsibilty for your own learning.
I'm only in the first semester, and I haven't found any of the subjects we learned too hard if one simply applies themself.
May 1, '06I'll be honest about my school. The standards are shockingly low. It takes an 18 on the ACT and some prerequisites to get in. If you live in the county, you get extra points, you get extra points on your application if you've completed all the science courses, you get extra points if you've applied in the past.
The problem with my school, IMHO, is that the academic standards are so incredibly low throughout the entire school that it is seriously EASY to get and maintain a 4.0 GPA. We have a lower than 50% graduation rate (from first semester through fifth) because "smart" students who have been breezing through their other classes finally get a reality check when they get into the nursing program. So basically we've got a bunch of academically successful students (successful by our school's standards) who fail out of nursing school, not because they didn't study but because they really did not have the aptitude for it to begin with. Add to that the stress of some really evil instructors, poor communication about what is expected and a bucketful of contradictory statements from one instructor to the next and in all honesty...I'm surprised that almost 50% do graduate.
To make matters worse, it's not as though my program has great instructors. I've heard wonderful things about the instructors in the upper classes, but I can tell you firsthand that most of the nursing one instructors at my school are the pits. It's a true joy when we get the good one teaching for the day, otherwise our collective eyes just glaze over for the next 3.5 hours. We've had occasions to be taught by some of the upper level instructors and WOW, what a difference.
I think that students who are struggling should definitely be pulled aside and LISTENED to. If I were king of the world, I'd want to know exactly what I could do to make the program more "user friendly". I don't think lowering standards would be the solution, but perhaps raising them would be. At my school, the best thing they could probably do would be to only accept students who did their prerequisites at another school, LOL. I think a nursing pre-course would be a good idea. Get people accustomed to the unique NCLEX style questions, get them accustomed to critical thinking and get all those little skills like taking vitals and stuff out of the way before you decide who can go on to nursing school. Our school doesn't require a CNA certification beforehand whereas other area schools do. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think a lot of my classmates have been adequately prepared for the level of difficulty in the nursing program because the rest of the school is absurdly easy. I'm just glad that I'm such a nerd and my idea of fun is to read textbooks, otherwise I might be amongst those that get weeded out along the way. I can get a 40 (out of 100 questions) on the final and still make a B, but we have so many that will be kissing the ground if they even make it.
We only have to have a 75 to pass (in both clinical and theory). The ones that do make it through tend to do well on the NCLEX, we have a nice pass rate on that at least.Last edit by DaFreak71 on May 1, '06
May 1, '06Quote from tookewlandyI think you might be getting "empathy" and "sympathy" confused.How can one be a good nurse if you cant sympathize with someone. i thought in nursing you had to posses qualities such as sympathy. If you cannot sympathize with fellow students who are not doing very well, then why would anyone think that you would sympathize with your patients.
May 1, '06My program is currently run on a "first-come, first-serve" waiting list basis. They are attempting to change this now because so many students are not prepared to do college level work. They are going back to an entrance exam for admission and you have to had passed Physiology with a B. Standards should be across the board in my opinion. And for the record, I work full time and get A's and B's.
May 1, '06Life is so horribly unfair at times! Yes, I struggled in school, but I DID MAKE IT, I think the main problem now days is people want everything to come easily. The lessons you remember best are those you learn the hard way.
I don't mind helping someone who is just a few points below , but come on, not everyone is cut out to be a nurse. I agree that standards are there for a reason...to ensure that our future patients are cared for by competent nurses. I can totally relate to what delirium is saying.