In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those funds will be allocated to help 'borderline' students succeed.
Borderline students? As in the students who can't pull off a 75 on an exam if their lives depended on it? These are the students we want to try to help graduate and be out on the workforce? I think its wrong to relax the standards and help those less intellectually focused to pass the program knowing that they will never pass boards and, if they do sneak through, they'll be horribly unsafe nurses.
Its bad enough that the minimum score on the ACT is a 20. One of my friends in school is in the program, right beside me, and scored an 18. WTF? What is the point of having standards if everyone doesn't have to adhere to them?
But no, now they are seeking money to hire special tutors and create college success courses for the students who can't seem to pass.
What do you think? There are admission standards, ongoing standards, for a reason... to 'weed out' the people who can't make it. Why cater to them, make it easy for them to pass, knowing they'll never be successful? To collect more tuition dollars? Improve their numbers of graduating students? It certainly won't improve the nclex pass rate.
People say I'm too hard on others. Ok, whatever. I do not want to work beside a borderline student who can't figure out a simple dosage calculation or doesn't know the difference between DI and DM.
You gotta remember that by definition, half the population has less than the average IQ of 100. I would think that nursing would attract those with a higher than average IQ, but that's not always the case. I know some dumba$$ nurses who made the dean's list in school and then I know a girl who took the boards 3 times before she passed and she's an excellent nurse. Making a nurse is kinda like baking a cake, you can't really tell what it will be like till it's done. I had 2 people that went to nursing school with me that I don't know if they ever passed boards or not, they wanted it so badly that they just couldn't see that they weren't right for the task. This was back in '87, and both of these woman just couldn't wait to "wear that white uniform and that white cap with a black strip across the front", kinda like a status symbol to them, sad.
Okay here is my two cents with an example. I went to nursing school after being out of high school eight years. I graduated high school early. I worked my butt off and graduated at 17. I went to college. My advisor told me heh you won't make it. I had to hire a person to help teach me old math since the algebra teacher said she knew that process but hey I don't teach that method. So I hire someone, pass fine. Take chemistry pass but it was tough. My advisor again tells me You won't pass the ACT. I took it I did fine considering I had been out of school so long. I took my courses did fine despite being told time after time I was told old to be in college. I thought it was really stupid for the math teacher to tell me my process was "to old" even though my problems were all correct setting up the problem the old method. I think if someone has issues or needs help they should get some opportunities. I had to pay for mine.
I agree that it is a disservice to the student to accept someone who does not meet minimum standards.
A person who really wants to be in nursing will eventually meet those standards, or will take another path to achieve the same result (a friend who could not make it into the RN program went for her LPN and THEN later did the RN when she finally met the program criteria).
Now, if someone makes it into the program, and then has trouble with an area, extra tutoring or help makes sense...to an extent. Too much help and handholding is not going to turn out independent and creative thinkers, which you really need to be a good nurse IMHO. If you can't solve your own problems in school, how are you going to manage the stressors and problems of a normal patient load?
Well, what if a student exceeds the miniumum standards in everything except for one area such as the ACT.
There are universities out there that are not requiring a standardized test any longer as part of their admissions process. There are many problems with every standarized test which is a commonly known fact.
So say the student has A/B's on their prereq's, has worked as a CNA for five years, volunteered on the rescue squad, has an awesome admission interview, stellar references, but scored a 19 on the ACT??
Then there is a student who got B-'s on their prereq's, no past experience, mediocore references, but damn... they got a 25 on the ACT.
Well, what if a student exceeds the miniumum standards in everything except for one area such as the ACT.
There are universities out there that are not requiring a standardized test any longer as part of their admissions process. There are many problems with every standarized test which is a commonly known fact.
So say the student has A/B's on their prereq's, has worked as a CNA for five years, volunteered on the rescue squad, has an awesome admission interview, stellar references, but scored a 19 on the ACT??
Then there is a student who got B-'s on their prereq's, no past experience, mediocore references, but damn... they got a 25 on the ACT.
Who should be admitted?
If it is a requirement for admission, then the school needs to stick with that. ACTs can be retaken...or the student can go to a school which does not require the ACT...or the student can go the LPN route and later bridge to an RN.
If requirements are relaxed for some, they must be relaxed for all, so then why have any requirements?
I think that certain students should be allowed to get help if they desire it. We didn't have to take the ACT, so that is irrelevant at my school. The minimum is a 75% on prereques and that is it to get in. The most coddling I have seen is a student was allowed to take exams in a separate room because she had such severe test anxiety and people finishing their tests while she was still testing freaked her out. Unfortunately, she still failed out, but she did really well in the clinical setting. Our school also gives you two chances, then you're out.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem. Is this referring to students with diagnosed learning disabilities, or students who are just struggling in general?
Im against a "gray" area. You either meet the requirements, or you dont. Shouldnt matter if you missed it "just barely". Would you then say that we should license nurses who "just barely" fail the NCLEX? That test is Pass/Fail. not, fail-the-test-but-be-ok-at-everything-else.
Black and white. Pass admission requirements or not. No room for "grays".
I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem. Is this referring to students with diagnosed learning disabilities, or students who are just struggling in general?
No. Students with diagnosed learning diabilities are assisted already. They meet with the dean of students with their special needs, and their needs are met, so that they can progress with the rest of the class. This is not the problem.
This is about students who are struggling. It seems to be a trickle down problem. As in, they relax the ACT standards, let the people in, and then they struggle with the material. It seems fairly obvious to me that they should utilize the ACT standards as they were intended to be utilized, and maybe there wouldn't be such an issue.
I am wondering if the school feels that the ACT is not a determinant of success?
Is one standarized exam really going to predict whether a student struggles or not? Do you find that those who did poorly on the ACT but were let into the program are now the same ones who are doing poorly in your program? Or are there other contributing factors? Are there other things the school should be screening before letting them in? Or should the school let in borderline students and then let them sink or swim...
What about those students that perhaps are returning back to school and may have slacked off in previous years but now are much more focused and ready to engage in learning? Should they not be let in bc of their past situation?
I don't disagree that students that as a whole do not qualify should not be let in... but perhaps the standards are not directed at the real predictors of success...
Just playing devil's advocate... but there is lots of talk out there about what little reliability standarized tests have. Every year you hear of another university which is dropping the requirement of the SAT. I dont have an exact research study, but will look for one, that investigates the reliability of the SAT/ACT.
LilgirlRN, ADN, RN
769 Posts
You gotta remember that by definition, half the population has less than the average IQ of 100. I would think that nursing would attract those with a higher than average IQ, but that's not always the case. I know some dumba$$ nurses who made the dean's list in school and then I know a girl who took the boards 3 times before she passed and she's an excellent nurse. Making a nurse is kinda like baking a cake, you can't really tell what it will be like till it's done. I had 2 people that went to nursing school with me that I don't know if they ever passed boards or not, they wanted it so badly that they just couldn't see that they weren't right for the task. This was back in '87, and both of these woman just couldn't wait to "wear that white uniform and that white cap with a black strip across the front", kinda like a status symbol to them, sad.