artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 46

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   KRVRN
    The not-so-nice quotes from Michael Schiavo ("is the b**** dead yet?" etc) make me wonder if he was deliberately makng those statements to piss off the nursing staff. What kind of relationship did he have with the staff? Were there some that he didn't like who didn't like him? How many of us have gotten the distinct impression that family members are sometimes just saying things to rile us up and piss us off? Complaining just to complain? Being difficult?

    We have thread after thread on this BB with posters venting about disgruntled family members. Did he get in Terri's face and ask her "B**** why won't you die?" So are these quotes as telling as the media would have us believe?
  2. by   Palamejo
    Quote from KRVRN
    The not-so-nice quotes from Michael Schiavo ("is the b**** dead yet?" etc) make me wonder if he was deliberately makng those statements to piss off the nursing staff. What kind of relationship did he have with the staff? Were there some that he didn't like who didn't like him? How many of us have gotten the distinct impression that family members are sometimes just saying things to rile us up and piss us off? Complaining just to complain? Being difficult?

    We have thread after thread on this BB with posters venting about disgruntled family members. Did he get in Terri's face and ask her "B**** why won't you die?" So are these quotes as telling as the media would have us believe?

    Here is a copy of one of the affidavits. See what you think.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1006944/posts
  3. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Palamejo
    Here is a copy of one of the affidavits. See what you think.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1006944/posts

    wow. i find it incredulous that nurse's notes were removed/deleted from the charts which is totally illegal. and why wasn't the Dept of Public Health or Board of Nursing notified? some major discrepancies and concerns with this nurse's statements....

    leslie
  4. by   jnette
    Quote from earle58
    wow. i find it incredulous that nurse's notes were removed/deleted from the charts which is totally illegal. and why wasn't the Dept of Public Health or Board of Nursing notified? some major discrepancies and concerns with this nurse's statements....

    leslie
    According to the nurse, Michael had intimidated administration and all..by threats of lawsuits if they provided any therapy or refused to do as HE said.. (as oppsed to what the doctors had ordered). And we all know who admin and company heads will side with if it stands to hurt their pocketbook.

    Apparantly after she went to authorities with her information (removal of nurses notes, etc.) she was terminated from her position at this facility.

    Who knows for sure..?

    Whatever.. what's done is done. Barring divine intervention at this point, I say Terri will be on her way to the other side very shortly. Easter Sunday is my guess, may well be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    Those who know the truth cannot hide from it and will face it again. Right now all I really care about is for this poor soul to be released from her own torment and chains that bind her, and that she might take to the skies as a white dove set free... she knows the truth as well. May she soar like an eagle.
    Last edit by jnette on Mar 26, '05
  5. by   Palamejo
    Quote from earle58
    wow. i find it incredulous that nurse's notes were removed/deleted from the charts which is totally illegal. and why wasn't the Dept of Public Health or Board of Nursing notified? some major discrepancies and concerns with this nurse's statements....

    leslie
    It is interesting...

    Reportedly, there are 1 RN and 2 CNA's who filed affidavits and gave testimony with similar information.

    There are other reports of discrepancies in the husband's statements also.

    Just makes you wonder what IS the truth?

    For myself, I would choose to ere on the side of caution, since no one can adequately prove their version of "truth."
  6. by   ScarlettRN
    Quote from Palamejo
    It is indeed a slippery and scary slope.

    What is the hurry? If there is additional testimony and evidence that may indicate Terri is more cognitively aware than initially reported, why not check it out? Why be in such a rush to let her die in this manner? I really cannot understand the Judge's position in this.

    I have heard a couple of the nurses that have cared for Terri state that she is more aware than is being reported. Also, the husband reportedly withheld antibiotics when she had a UTI, and has not allowed simple PROM exercises for Terri. This, coupled with his statements about wanting her die seem to point to the necessity of checking into the matter further, at the very least.

    I, for one, believe the NURSES that have cared for her over an estranged husband.

    Another point is that Terri and her husband were estranged at the time of her accident. They were going their separate ways. I would hate to have my son-in-law, if he were estranged from my daughter, to be making all of the life and death decisions for her --- not to mention refusing her Last Rites, having her cremated, and burying her in his families' plot (when he has a whole other life with another woman). It just seems as if he is deliberately being cruel to Terri, as well as to her entire family. Almost vindictive.

    If they allow Terri to die, I hope the family can bring murder charges against the husband so that there can be a full investigation into the matter.
    According to the report filed by the guardian who was appointed by Gov Jeb Bush back in 02 or 03, Terri and her husband were trying to have a baby, and that doesn't sound like estrangement to me.
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from Palamejo
    It is interesting...

    Reportedly, there are 1 RN and 2 CNA's who filed affidavits and gave testimony with similar information.

    There are other reports of discrepancies in the husband's statements also.

    Just makes you wonder what IS the truth?

    For myself, I would choose to ere on the side of caution, since no one can adequately prove their version of "truth."

    Why such a small amount of nurses out the probably dozens and dozens. If I were a lawyer for the parents, I would interview every single nurse that ever had contact with her. Why are the one's that are inflammatory the ones that were given affidavits?

    I would err on caution as well. I understand what you're saying.

    But I certainly wouldn't take the word of 3 or 4 nurses. If what this nurse said it was common knowlege they should have sworn affidavits from dozens of nurses saying the same thing.

    It just doesn't add up that after all his years of trying to turn the tube off, all the appearls, judges, court cases, etc. they still are siding with him.
  8. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from jnette
    According to the nurse, Michael had intimidated administration and all..by threats of lawsuits if they provided any therapy or refused to do as HE said.. (as oppsed to what the doctors had ordered). And we all know who admin and company heads will side with if it stands to hurt their pocketbook.

    Apparantly after she went to authorities with her information (removal of nurses notes, etc.) she was terminated from her position at this facility.
    but jnette, WHY wouldn't this negligence per Michael's orders be reportable to the Dept of Public Health? i understand your point about administration obliging to his orders, however unethical.....but shouldn't this have been investigated. in a way this IS patient abandonment/negligence even if it is her husband's orders. i don't even know if it's legal what he did, i.e., something as benign as rom by the nurses.....
  9. by   Tweety
    Quote from earle58
    but jnette, WHY wouldn't this negligence per Michael's orders be reportable to the Dept of Public Health? i understand your point about administration obliging to his orders, however unethical.....but shouldn't this have been investigated. in a way this IS patient abandonment/negligence even if it is her husband's orders. i don't even know if it's legal what he did, i.e., something as benign as rom by the nurses.....

    Leslie, I'm wondering the same thing. Our administration bends over backwards to please families, even the unreasonable and beligerent ones (and there are plenty of those, Ms. Shaivo's not unique there). But I'm certain our administration would not tolerate the removal of nurses notes. We don't let them near the charts on a regular basis, but when we do they are in the presence of a staff member.

    Something just isn't adding up here.
  10. by   jnette
    Quote from Tweety
    Why such a small amount of nurses out the probably dozens and dozens. If I were a lawyer for the parents, I would interview every single nurse that ever had contact with her. Why are the one's that are inflammatory the ones that were given affidavits?

    I would err on caution as well. I understand what you're saying.

    But I certainly wouldn't take the word of 3 or 4 nurses. If what this nurse said it was common knowlege they should have sworn affidavits from dozens of nurses saying the same thing.
    I agree with the above. I would think other nurses would have chimed in by now. I also think ALL nurses who had Terri in their care should be interviewed.

    I wasn't holding up for the nurse who spoke out.. merely repeating what SHE said.

    Just too many unanswered questions... too little too late.
    Last edit by jnette on Mar 26, '05
  11. by   deanpicu
    She had last rites performed when they took the tube out last week and will have them again when death is imminent performed by the hospice priest. Also the money that the Shiavos' won through the malpractice suit, went into a trust to pay for Terri's medical needs. Lawyer for Michael says it ran out three years ago and she is now a recipient of Medicare/Medicaid. Michael stands to gain nothing financially at this point. Maybe we should turn this around and say her rights and wishes were violated when they put the tube in in the first place.


    Quote from Kyriaka
    I question his motives.

    Last time she was removed from food/water, her parents wanted a priest to giver her last rites. The husband refused.

    There has been a sworn statement from Terri's nurse that her husband came into the room and asked, "is the b*tch dead yet?" and "I am going to be rich!"
  12. by   deanpicu
    One last thing, the nurse that claimed Michael said those things and testified that Terri had held conversations with her was found to be lying by the lower courts. Michael was almost given a restraining order because of how adamant and particular about the care she recieved. She has never had a pressure sore under his watchful eye. But still this "nurse" is part of the dog and pony show going on around the issue.
  13. by   RedSox33RN
    Quote from Tweety
    Leslie, I'm wondering the same thing. Our administration bends over backwards to please families, even the unreasonable and beligerent ones (and there are plenty of those, Ms. Shaivo's not unique there). But I'm certain our administration would not tolerate the removal of nurses notes. We don't let them near the charts on a regular basis, but when we do they are in the presence of a staff member.

    Something just isn't adding up here.
    I must say, that as a nursing student, this really bothers me also. It is drilled into our heads time and again that our notes, even as student nurses, are LEGAL documents. You don't alter, erase, white-out, tear out ANYTHING. I'm sure the FL Board of Nursing will be hearing much more about this, or at least, I would hope so.

    It also bothers me greatly that these nurses are giving interviews and speaking to others regarding a patient, no matter how "famous" she is. Even if her parents/husband/siblings speak to the press about stuff, and maybe even the doctor with permission, I find it disturbing that these nurses and aides would give any information to the press about any aspect of her care, even before the HIPAA laws were passed.

    No matter what side of this issue one is on, the implications regarding her charts being altered and private medical information released by RN's and LNA's is very serious.

    And this may be a dumb question, being that I'm a student and all, but WHY would a nurse follow Michael's orders (if that is indeed what happened, and I have doubts, but that is neither here nor there) or any other orders besides the docs? I know about critical thinking and how that comes into play, but if a family member told me not to turn/massage/ROM, etc., when I that is specifically part of my duties, why wouldn't I just continue to do it anyway? I don't mean to sound beligerent or anything here - I'm truly asking if this really happens nowadays, and if so, what nurses do about it. Ignore it? Chart it? Notify doc? All of the above?

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