Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

[ktwlpn]

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

[ayndim]

Of all the pics and videos shown, why are there no recent ones? Like in the last year or from earlier this year.

[Jrnalist2RNinOR]

Bush Criticized for End-of-Life Laws

Friday, March 25, 2005

By Jane Roh

NEW YORK-While Americans were riveted by dramatic events unfolding in Pinellas Park, Fla., a five-month-old Houston baby took his last breath after a hospital let him die despite his mother's objections.

Sun Hudson (search) was born Sept. 25 with thanatophoric dysplasia (search), an incurable and fatal form of dwarfism. Doctors said his tiny lungs would never fully grow and that he would never breathe on his own.

Hudson's mother, Wanda, put up a fight when doctors advised removing Sun from a respirator. She said she did not believe in sickness or death.

But on March 15, a Texas law signed by then-Gov. George W. Bush (search) in 1999 allowed the hospital to go ahead and take Sun off the respirator in defiance of Wanda Hudson's wishes.

While the battle over Terri Schiavo (search) has drawn dozens of outraged protesters to her Florida hospice, Sun's story made nary a bleep on the nation's radar. The few media outlets that picked up his story predictably drew parallels to the Schiavo case, and some experts have charged the president with hypocrisy.

"The Texas statute that Bush signed authorized the ending of the life, even over the parents' protest. And what he's doing here is saying, 'The parents are protesting. You shouldn't stop [treatment],'" John Paris, a medical ethicist at Boston College, told Newsday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html

[jnette, ASN, EMT-I]

To me it doesn't matter if she is brain damaged enough to not know she is being starved/dehydrated. Or that she may be euphoric (although if she can't feel hunger and thirst, how can she feel euphoria?).

I don't believe in pulling a feeding tube from a relatively healthy brain damaged human being. I think comparing hospice patients and Terri is disingenuous.

There are many people with less than perfect lives . . to me this starts us on the downward slide towards looking at someone's elses "quality" of life and making decisions about whether they are worth keeping alive. Next may be kids with Down's Syndrome. Or quads like Christopher Reeve (who obviously has gone on to heaven). Or elderly people in poor health who are a burden on their kids or feel they are a burden on their kids. Where does it stop?

steph

Have to agree with this. I have pondered this as well.

I used to work in a State institution with the most PROFOUND of the profoundly retarded/mentally disabled.

While SOME were able to eat on their own, most were not, and had to be spoonfed. Chasing and eating mopstrings on the floors or eating one's own feces and that of others seems to me to be a far worse fate than Terri's.

These poor individuals were NOT able to toilet themselves, either.. nor feed themselves (although the swallowing mechanisms were in place). Many had contractures as severe if not more severe than Terri's. Many self-injured to the extreme where they were no more than slowly rotting away.. totally unaware of their surroundings or the meaning of their actions.

So what of this? Do we do away with all these now as well? And if Terri's life is "barbaric", are these not as well, if not more so? They cannot make their wishes known, either, yet we provide care for them. Their families cannot or will not care for them at home.. but Terri's family is more than willing to provide care for their daughter.

Perhaps it's not ABOUT Terri, in the end... what if it's more about US..?.. and how and what we can learn about or from these difficult life experiences.

And finding that caring and providing care to these unfortunates teaches us valuable lessons in and about humanity.. and ourselves.

Lots to ponder here.

[boxermom]

Have to agree with this. I have pondered this as well.

I used to work in a State institution with the most PROFOUND of the profoundly retarded/mentally disabled.

While they SOME were able to eat on their own, most were not, and had to be spoonfed. Chasing and eating mopstrings on the floors or eating one's own feces and that of others seems to me to be a far worse fate than Terri's.

These poor individuals were NOT able to toilet themselves, either.. nor feed themselves (although the swallowing mechanisms were in place). Many had contractures as severe if not more severe than Terri's. Many self-injured to the extreme where they were no more than slowly rotting away.. totally unaware of their surroundings or the meaning of their actions.

So what of this? Do we do away with all these now as well? And if Terri's life is "barbaric", are these not as well, if not more so? They cannot make their wishes known, either, yet we provide care for them. Their families cannot or will not care for them at home.. but Terri's family is more than willing to provide care for their daughter.

Perhaps it's not ABOUT Terri, in the end... what if it's more about US..?.. and how and what we can learn about or from these difficult life experiences.

And finding that caring and providing care to these unfortunates teaches us valuable lessons in and about humanity.. and ourselves.

Lots to ponder here.

I agree.

We need to ponder this, and look for the human spirit in all these cribbled, brain damaged, or retarded people. What makes us human? What makes us want to become a nurse? Why is one student nurse changing her major after listening to all us nurses argue about, Is this a life worthy of living? Nurses do see that there is human life and a soul in these people. I recently cared for a CVA patient that was sent back to die at the nursing home, who started swallowing when I did oral cares, just as Terri did. She is now eating pureed food, because I got speech involved.

boxermom

[danu3]

I do think that if the parents were put under the microscope as her husband has, they wouldn't come up squeaky clean. But then who would? Even during the four hour tape where dad was trying to get a response for the camera, he lost patience with her "come on Terri, do something here, I'm not fooling around". Makes you wonder how he treated her at home without cameras rolling.

You know if the 4 hour tape (or at least part of it) is on the internet anywhere?

[BeachNurse]

There are some videos here

http://www.terrisfight.net/

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

You know if the 4 hour tape (or at least part of it) is on the internet anywhere?

The snippet you see on the news over and over again. The original tape was 4 hours and for most of those 4 hours she did not respond. But I don't know if it's online.

[leslie :-D]

since i've heard about this case, i too, have contemplated the potential effects of how this could impact others, i.e., the slippery slope. it is frightening.

i remember when an hmo took over our facility, the first thing the np did was to make a profoundly retarded, non-ambulatory, g-tuber pt. a DNH.

she had been institutionalized all her life so she was rather violent and antagonistic when she came. she used to throw utensils at the others; stick her foot out so we would trip (she did this to staff) and all the nurses took the time to show her love and attention. we taught her manners w/prompting. she had a huge beautiful smile. so while we taught her social skills to the best of our and her ability, she was receptive to us, smiling ear to ear........LOVED barney videos.

so i was furious when she was made a dnh. i asked the np why and she said "what quality of life does she have? she doesn't ambulate and has a fdg tube" and i told her..."and she's profoundly retarded, that's the main reason".

i tried to explain that this pt was happy w/her life since she was lavished w/so much love. yet the np wouldn't budge. i went to my DON and they held a meeting, the np, DON, me and pt's legal guardian (an atty) trying to validate the np's decision. i still said i was appalled and disappointed.

my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

leslie

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

since i've heard about this case, i too, have contemplated the potential effects of how this could impact others, i.e., the slippery slope. it is frightening.

i remember when an hmo took over our facility, the first thing the np did was to make a profoundly retarded, non-ambulatory, g-tuber pt. a DNH.

she had been institutionalized all her life so she was rather violent and antagonistic when she came. she used to throw utensils at the others; stick her foot out so we would trip (she did this to staff) and all the nurses took the time to show her love and attention. we taught her manners w/prompting. she had a huge beautiful smile. so while we taught her social skills to the best of our and her ability, she was receptive to us, smiling ear to ear........LOVED barney videos.

so i was furious when she was made a dnh. i asked the np why and she said "what quality of life does she have? she doesn't ambulate and has a fdg tube" and i told her..."and she's profoundly retarded, that's the main reason".

i tried to explain that this pt was happy w/her life since she was lavished w/so much love. yet the np wouldn't budge. i went to my DON and they held a meeting, the np, DON, me and pt's legal guardian (an atty) trying to validate the np's decision. i still said i was appalled and disappointed.

my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

leslie

Ok - that is just wrong.

steph

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

leslie

I agree the slipperly slope and potential for other things down the road can be scarey. Hopefully, this will be such a unique case the repercustions won't be too bad.

Statements like the one I've quoted from you above make the presumption that those who side with Terri's husband are choosing too because we find her life to be of no value. That's not true.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Of all the pics and videos shown, why are there no recent ones? Like in the last year or from earlier this year.

Rumor has it the husband hasn't allowed any more cameras in. I think though too, she's unresponsive, and these are the only one's they got.

[danu3]

There are some videos here

http://www.terrisfight.net/

Thanks. I saw those already, however. I was asking for the other tape on the other side. Just wanting to see both sides.