artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 45

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from earle58
    since i've heard about this case, i too, have contemplated the potential effects of how this could impact others, i.e., the slippery slope. it is frightening.

    i remember when an hmo took over our facility, the first thing the np did was to make a profoundly retarded, non-ambulatory, g-tuber pt. a DNH.

    she had been institutionalized all her life so she was rather violent and antagonistic when she came. she used to throw utensils at the others; stick her foot out so we would trip (she did this to staff) and all the nurses took the time to show her love and attention. we taught her manners w/prompting. she had a huge beautiful smile. so while we taught her social skills to the best of our and her ability, she was receptive to us, smiling ear to ear........LOVED barney videos.

    so i was furious when she was made a dnh. i asked the np why and she said "what quality of life does she have? she doesn't ambulate and has a fdg tube" and i told her..."and she's profoundly retarded, that's the main reason".
    i tried to explain that this pt was happy w/her life since she was lavished w/so much love. yet the np wouldn't budge. i went to my DON and they held a meeting, the np, DON, me and pt's legal guardian (an atty) trying to validate the np's decision. i still said i was appalled and disappointed.

    my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

    leslie
    Ok - that is just wrong.

    steph
  2. by   Tweety
    Quote from earle58
    my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

    leslie

    I agree the slipperly slope and potential for other things down the road can be scarey. Hopefully, this will be such a unique case the repercustions won't be too bad.

    Statements like the one I've quoted from you above make the presumption that those who side with Terri's husband are choosing too because we find her life to be of no value. That's not true.
  3. by   Tweety
    Quote from ayndim
    Of all the pics and videos shown, why are there no recent ones? Like in the last year or from earlier this year.
    Rumor has it the husband hasn't allowed any more cameras in. I think though too, she's unresponsive, and these are the only one's they got.
  4. by   danu3
    Quote from BeachNurse
    There are some videos here
    http://www.terrisfight.net/
    Thanks. I saw those already, however. I was asking for the other tape on the other side. Just wanting to see both sides.
  5. by   danu3
    Quote from earle58
    so i was furious when she was made a dnh. i asked the np why and she said "what quality of life does she have? she doesn't ambulate and has a fdg tube" and i told her..."and she's profoundly retarded, that's the main reason".
    i tried to explain that this pt was happy w/her life since she was lavished w/so much love. yet the np wouldn't budge. i went to my DON and they held a meeting, the np, DON, me and pt's legal guardian (an atty) trying to validate the np's decision. i still said i was appalled and disappointed.

    my point is that terri's case can potentially open up a can of worms and having govt decide whose life is worthy or not. very very scary.

    leslie
    This opens up another question which is as a society, how do we value a human being? For example, do we value a person by what s/he does/produce? Do we value a person by his/her relationship with others? Or ...

    If a person's ultimate worth is by what a person produces (which probably can be somehow translated into some monetary value in lots of cases) in society then there are many implications like the following group of people are of less worth, or even not worth living:

    • Seniors who are not actively contributing to society
    • Many of the mentally retartded
    • Many of the serioiusly mentally illed
    • The homeless
    • ... others.

    In your NP case, s/he probably have this kind of underneath value. In your case, you probably have a more relational view because the patient you care for has a relation between her and the staff (who has compassion on her) and for this she is valued. Maybe a clash of two value systems...

    -Dan
  6. by   Palamejo
    It is indeed a slippery and scary slope.

    What is the hurry? If there is additional testimony and evidence that may indicate Terri is more cognitively aware than initially reported, why not check it out? Why be in such a rush to let her die in this manner? I really cannot understand the Judge's position in this.

    I have heard a couple of the nurses that have cared for Terri state that she is more aware than is being reported. Also, the husband reportedly withheld antibiotics when she had a UTI, and has not allowed simple PROM exercises for Terri. This, coupled with his statements about wanting her die seem to point to the necessity of checking into the matter further, at the very least.

    I, for one, believe the NURSES that have cared for her over an estranged husband.

    Another point is that Terri and her husband were estranged at the time of her accident. They were going their separate ways. I would hate to have my son-in-law, if he were estranged from my daughter, to be making all of the life and death decisions for her --- not to mention refusing her Last Rites, having her cremated, and burying her in his families' plot (when he has a whole other life with another woman). It just seems as if he is deliberately being cruel to Terri, as well as to her entire family. Almost vindictive.

    If they allow Terri to die, I hope the family can bring murder charges against the husband so that there can be a full investigation into the matter.
  7. by   BeachNurse
    I doubt that will happen. The husband has also stated he intends for Terri's body to be cremated, so I am sure there will be no autopsy.
  8. by   bugsbee
    I do not believe the parents at all. I think it is their guilt not their love that is getting in the way. The husband after 15 years is entitled to a life. And to make such a circus of this and strip Terri of all dignity and privacy is a crime all by it self.
  9. by   KRVRN
    Palamejo,

    There is no hurry here. It only seems hurried and rushed because all of a sudden the entire country is watching. This fight has been ongoing for YEARS.
  10. by   Palamejo
    Quote from bugsbee
    I do not believe the parents at all. I think it is their guilt not their love that is getting in the way. The husband after 15 years is entitled to a life. And to make such a circus of this and strip Terri of all dignity and privacy is a crime all by it self.

    It is the nurses statements, not the parents, that won me over.

    Yes, the husband is entitled to a life. If he divorced Terri and went on with his life, no one would fault him. Let her parents and family continue to care for her! His statements about wanting the *b* to die, and that he would be "rich," just do not paint him in a very favorable light. And what of his refusal of proper care for her... even if it is the parents guilt and not love that is their motivation, then they are certainly the lesser of two evils.

    I worked with a domestic violence program for a time and it is really an eye opener to see that there truly are some spouses who are fixated on inflicting pain (emotional and/or physical). They are obsessed by it and derive pleasure from the pain they cause to others (spouse AND their family). It is hard to really grasp that there are such mean people in the world. But there are. I'm not saying Terri's husband is one of those people, but he has definitely done and said some things that could make it seem so.

    It is a hard case. I still stick by the nurses and believe their opinions/observations. They are the ones with the believable integrity in this case.

    (Am I wrong that Terri and her husband were separated at the time of her incident? I thought that was what had been reported, but I could have heard it wrong. If I am correct, then that is significant information in my opinion.)
  11. by   Tweety
    Palamajo, do the nurses know what Terri's wishes were? The nurses jobs in this case were to care for her nonjudgementally.

    I'm a bit leary of taking their gospel word, as I know how gossip spreads and is twisted. If a nurse actually heard him say that with her own two ears and not just from someone who heard from someone who heard, you know what I mean? But I am bothered by that.

    What possible new evidence about her condition could there be after all these years? Isn't that more like grasphing at straws. Surely, the parents, couldn't possibly have new evidence about her responsiveness since the last time her tube was pulled. But I suppose it's possible.
  12. by   camay1221_RN
    Quote from stevielynn
    Terri has siblings and many other relatives.

    steph
    Steph,

    Yes, she does, however, how many of them would come forward and want to take full responsibility for her the way her parents have.

    Please don't get me wrong, I trust that her family want the best for her, but are they going to be able to care of her and still care for their own families?
  13. by   Palamejo
    Quote from Tweety
    Palamajo, do the nurses know what Terri's wishes were? The nurses jobs in this case were to care for her nonjudgementally.

    I'm a bit leary of taking their gospel word, as I know how gossip spreads and is twisted. If a nurse actually heard him say that with her own two ears and not just from someone who heard from someone who heard, you know what I mean? But I am bothered by that.

    What possible new evidence about her condition could there be after all these years? Isn't that more like grasphing at straws. Surely, the parents, couldn't possibly have new evidence about her responsiveness since the last time her tube was pulled. But I suppose it's possible.

    The nurses I heard speaking on the radio stated that they had heard the husband's statements personally. They also stated that they had provided affidavits and testimony to that effect for the Judge. This morning, one of the nurses said that she had been able to feed Terri juice and jello at one time, but that the husband had refused for her to continue being fed orally. Another time I heard them say that she was responsive and they felt that with proper treatement and therapy she could improve. Not recover, but improve. These are the type of statements from the nurses who have cared for Terri that I find really disturbing in this case!

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