Another rant regarding MA's and Nurses - page 3
I know I've read on here multiple times regarding MA's calling themselves nurses but now its not even the ma's but the doctor's office they work in calling them nurses. I feel this is so misleading... Read More
3Nov 17, '11 by FocusRNQuote from ashlie2144Medical assistants are unlicensed assistive personnel (UAP). To have a "scope of practice" one must be a professional, being a professional requires licensure. ALL professionals can practice autonomously on some level. Professionals can be sued for "malpractice" of their profession. UAPs are not professionals, can never practice autonomously, do not have a scope of practice, and therefore can not be sued for "malpractice" (although they can still be sued.)As a medical assistant in a doctors office everything that I can tell the patient I do, I have the right and knowledge to tell them what they need to know if its within my scope of practice.
This is what California says about medical assistants, and telephone triage:
Are medical assistants allowed to perform telephone triage?
No. Medical assistants are not allowed to independently perform telephone triage as they are not legally authorized to interpret data or diagnose symptoms.
5Nov 17, '11 by kcmylornTriage is the process of determining the priority of patients' treatments based on the severity of their condition. It is a sorting or allocating prioity .
Triage involves clinical judgement.
Medical assistants are taught 'tasks'( taking BP's, a temp, a pulse, respirations, and how to operate a pulse ox,taking a patient's weight, and height how to draw blood) not the interpretation of the values they obtain.
The "knowledge"the MA has about a BP is: I put the BP cuff around your arm in this specific place, I pump up this cuff with this ball, and let the air out noting where I hear the pulse start and the pulse stop- That is a task not a body of knowledge about hypertension, hypotension or normotension, the biochemical alterations or structural alterations in normal anatomy and physiology of the peripheral vascular system,the pulmonary system, pressures and it's vessels, it's effects on the myocardium, hemodynamic pressures and on perfusion including the chemical alterations in cellular physiology. I won't even getinto the "task of drawning blood and the interpretation of lab values related to cardiac, renal and metabolic lab values. MA's are taught tasks and tasks only-
Nurses are not on a triage computer program "just reading" off the computer . They are listening to what a patient is reporting to them,processing it against a lot of formally taught subject matter and formulating a judgment. Those computer triage programs are only guidelines. The RN is formulating a judgment against those guidelines. We just make it look easy. It's not.
0Nov 17, '11 by PsychNurseWannaBe, BSN, RNWhen I answer the phone I say my name and either RN or registered nurse. Ashley and all MA's should be doing the same. If the phone states to talk with a nurse and you get an Ashley, then I would complain to the corporate office and state that it is illegal to mislead the public. Some of the prompts around here have changed, even if it is the same office with multiple doctors the recording will say, to speak with Dr. A nurse press 1, to speak with Dr. B practice associate press 2, etc. So some have changed their recording system.
Nothing ticks me off more than when I call a MD's office to provide an update on a patient and I am getting triaged by a UAP. Sorry...I think I am already 20 steps ahead of you. Not get me the nurse or the MD.
1Nov 17, '11 by PsychNurseWannaBe, BSN, RNAlso, in Wisconsin the term nurse by law means only a registered nurse and nursing means professional nursing (services provided by an RN)
0Nov 18, '11 by Kaligirl02, ADNMedical Assistants DO have a scope of practice, I'm not sure where you are looking at, but if you look on the Govt. website...http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos164.htm it says what medical assistants can do.
On another OFFICIAL site it states What is the scope of practice of a medical assistant? In some states medical assistants have a clearly stated scope of practice, but in some states there is no law on the matter" (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/580647_2)
From The Medical Board of California
Are medical assistants required to be licensed or certified by the State of California to perform procedures within their "scope of practice"?
No. Medical assistants are not licensed, certified, or registered by the State of California. However, the medical assistant's employer and/or supervising physician's or podiatrist's malpractice insurance carrier may require that the medical assistant be certified by a national or private association. A medical assistant must be certified by one of the approved certifying organizations in order to train other medical assistants. (Title 16 CCR 1366.3)
As far as INDEPENDTLY doing phone triage , No we aren't supposed to do it. What we do, like I stated previously,is speak with the pt get their signs and symptoms and report back to the doctor on what was documented, then after the MD reviews what they need to review, tells us what to say to the pt. That is what we do. If you wish not to speak with an MA you can always ask to leave a message for the doctor to specifically call you back. You don't have to speak with them.
As far as stating MA's knowledge is as far as knowing how to take an accurate BP is harsh and it's ignorance on people's part to believe that. I don't have a certificate, I have an Associates in Medical Assisting from an accredited junior college. I have taken an passed with a 3.8 gpa total in : Pharmacology, A&P 1,2, Microbology, lifespan,English comp,chemistry, my course also had x-ray,EKG and phlebotomy. A lot of Medical assistants start off this way to make sure they are certain ths is what they want to do.
I understand that some MA's are ok with calling theirselves nurses, and that's not acceptable. But to belittle us, like we are second class citizens is troubling. At the end of the day we are all patient centered.
1Nov 18, '11 by BuckyBadgerRN, RNQuote from PsychNurseWannaBeCareful---you'll get jumped on for sharing THAT!!! Ask me how I know....Also, in Wisconsin the term nurse by law means only a registered nurse and nursing means professional nursing (services provided by an RN)
0Nov 18, '11 by luvazsunI think the reason BON's do not go after MA's referring themselves as nurses is because MA's are certified, licensed or whatever (depending on the state) by the Medical Board, not nursing, so they do not have any say in the matter. I know 2 offices that have a phone system that say "if you want to speak to a nurse..." and they do not employ RN's. I have heard MA's giving medical advice because " that's what the doctor always orders", so they believe they know what to do. I think the doctors who allow this in their offices should be reported to the medical board, however, the medical board (after I reported a doc), allow the doctor to decided what their MA can and cannot do.
So, why did MA's become so popular - NA's do the same "tasks", but the doctors wanted to control them, and they can't control NA's? Just wondering.
0Nov 18, '11 by Kaligirl02, ADNNa's and Ma's aren't the same. Nursing assistants do bedside care, a lot aren't able to draw blood, give injections, remove stitches, x-rays, EKG's etc. As a NCMA and a CNA, I prefer being a NCMA because I love working in an ambulatory care facility than long term care etc. But being both a MA and CNA I think Iam more rounded. Alot of people in my nursing classes don't have experience or are one or the other. With having sufficient knowledge on bedside care and clinical task Iam able to focus more on book work than not worrying if I'm doing the skills right (as of now :-)). I'm hoping it will make a better nurse when I'm done with school next year. HTH
3Nov 18, '11 by OCNRN63Quote from ashlie2144Please tell me you really didn't just say that. And you only have one more year?Na's and Ma's aren't the same. Nursing assistants do bedside care, a lot aren't able to draw blood, give injections, remove stitches, x-rays, EKG's etc. As a NCMA and a CNA, I prefer being a NCMA because I love working in an ambulatory care facility than long term care etc. But being both a MA and CNA I think Iam more rounded. Alot of people in my nursing classes don't have experience or are one or the other. With having sufficient knowledge on bedside care and clinical task Iam able to focus more on book work than not worrying if I'm doing the skills right (as of now :-)). I'm hoping it will make a better nurse when I'm done with school next year. HTH
0Quote from ColleenRN2BI'm not a stickler on that portion of the statues. I don't care if an LPN says she is a nurse, because really, she is, the key difference is practical vs professional. I have no problem sharing the sandbox.Careful---you'll get jumped on for sharing THAT!!! Ask me how I know....
1Quote from ashlie2144That is not a statue or law but merely a job description of what MAs can do but it is broad based. You should not rely on that for what you can and can not do as the state determines this.Medical Assistants DO have a scope of practice, I'm not sure where you are looking at, but if you look on the Govt. website...http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos164.htm it says what medical assistants can do.
For example... this tells you what you can specifically do, however, if you move states, then you would have to check with that state.
Quote from ashlie2144
1Having CNA and MA experience will definitely compliment your skills and learning but both are roles that are supervised by someone who is licensed. Neither role can assess. That will be a huge transition for you, as well as, more advanced skills that are invasive as you move forward in your nursing education. Good Luck!!
2Quote from luvazsunIt depends on the state. For example, in WI anyone who says they are a nurse and are not can be penalized with a fine or jail time. I don't know if they go in front of the BON or if the BON refers it to another agency to do the prosecuting.I think the reason BON's do not go after MA's referring themselves as nurses is because MA's are certified, licensed or whatever (depending on the state) by the Medical Board, not nursing, so they do not have any say in the matter.