A step towards "universal health care" run by the government? - page 6

search results - thomas (library of congress):: the text of the bill has not been published yet, but this looks like one more step towards universal health care. what do you think?... Read More

  1. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from EJM
    Let's not fool ourselves. What country is sought after most for their healthcare?

    Being proud of your country is a good thing. There is a difference between pride and arrogance. It is okay to show pride in your country. Of course there are other countries who do certain things better. Japan has excellent manufacturing for example. No one country is perfect.
    American doctors are sought after.

    In truth, our medicine is is EXCELLENT medicine- IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

    If you can't, well, you're screwed.
  2. by   Multicollinearity
    Toyota, Moving Northward - New York Times

    "But education is only one reason Toyota chose Ontario. Canada's other big selling point is its national health insurance system, which saves auto manufacturers large sums in benefit payments compared with their costs in the United States.
    You might be tempted to say that Canadian taxpayers are, in effect, subsidizing Toyota's move by paying for health coverage. But that's not right, even aside from the fact that Canada's health care system has far lower costs per person than the American system, with its huge administrative expenses. In fact, U.S. taxpayers, not Canadians, will be hurt by the northward movement of auto jobs."
  3. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Canada treated its nurses like garbage in the 90's. The result: many fled to the U.S. for decent salaries and treatment.

    As the drain started to effect care, Canada responded by being forced to recruit those nurses back and to retain the ones they were training.

    If the U.S. were to nationalize ITS healthcare, Canada would no longer have an incentive to try to 'keep up' with the pay of American nurses.

    Both nations could then collude to keep those salaries in the basement.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  4. by   blueyesue
    originally posted by ejm
    plus, governments such as canada, have outlawed medical care if the service is paid for by private individual funds. something just isn't right about that.
    Quote from rach_nc_03
    i don't know canadian law, so one of the canadians will have to respond to that. i have a tough time believing it.
    the new president of canada's national medical association is an outspoken advocate of greater privatization of canada's national health care system. dr. brian day, who was elected at the organizations annual meeting on tuesday, operates a private-pay medical clinic in technical violation of canada's single-payer health care laws. last year, the canadian supreme court struck down quebec's prohibition on private payment for health care, and implying that other similar restrictions in other provinces were similarly unconstitutional. however, the prohibition remains on the books in vancouver where dr. day runs his clinic. dr. day points to the long waiting lists and patient suffering under canada's system and says, "a state-run monopoly is not the best way to run anything, let alone a health care system."
    canadian journalists and observers say that day's election is the latest manifestation of a canadian unhappiness with their government-controlled system. maybe they know something that advocates of a single-payer system in this country don't?

    cato-at-liberty revolt against canadian health care system continues
  5. by   hope3456
    This is the situation I am struggling to understand and leads me to believe something is wrong with the system:

    I have a friend who recently had a baby - she had no health insurance. She is not rich (lives very simply), but her husband's job doesn't provide her with health insurance and she made the decision to be a 'stay at home mom' with her other child for a couple years. She is a educated, productive member of society, but didn't qualify for medicaid or any other 'aid' program. She was very cost conscious about her prenatal care - going to a midwife group in a neighboring community b/c she researched them and they were the cheapest she could find - she refused an ultrasound b/c of the cost as well as other lab tests, went to a birthing center for the birth, ect. She went to extremes to stay healthy, exercising, ect. She told me she really hoped to be able to 'go natural' and avoid an epidural, c-section, ect. - primarily b/c of the cost. She does, however, have a $7000 bill for a normal l&d. No help from anyone.

    In conversation with my neighbor a couple weeks ago, she told me that medicaid picked up the tab for the birth of her child. She had no complaints - had an ultrasound,epidural, birth at the local hosp - everything my friend didnt have. she said she "didnt pay a dime for any of it" and is "really glad that God worked it out for her to get medicaid." She also says she is planning on having another child - and this time she is planning on getting on the state child health plan to get prenatal care.

    Am I wrong to be pi$$ed off about this?? what is wrong with this pic?? And then I did some research on medicaid, and found that here in CO, 1/3 of childbirths are paid for by medicaid.

    Now my perception of medicaid was that it was for the very poor, children and the elderly, but that just seems like a really high number of childbirths to be picked up by the taxpayer. Arguably, this is a segment of the population that theoretically would be able to work and obtain their own health insurance.

    I just don't get it.
    Last edit by hope3456 on Dec 10, '06
  6. by   GardenDove
    Quote from EJM
    Should leaders lead or follow? As the leader of the free world we must display some strength. If we just roll over to the worlds demands then we will be taken over. (I am not advocating being the police of the world. I am advocating self defense, a little show and tell, and of course protecting our freedoms.) We are superior in many aspects. That is fact. We do make some bad decisions and mistakes, but we try to rectify them. (That is part of being great.) IMO, we live in the greatest country in the world. Of course if someone doesn't like what America is all about, then one can always move. There are other great countries out there. :spin:
    My point is that sometimes this great nation needs to get off it's superiority kick and practice a little humility. We need to take an honest look at ourselves here. Most people in healthcare know that our patchwork, multipayer system of healthcare coverage is ineffecient and unfair.

    Just because I critisize something about my country, btw, doesn't mean I should be told to like it or leave it. That's not a very democratic attitude. I agree this is a great country. But we're falling short on healthcare. It's ridiculous that a convicted felon should have health coverage, but not an unemployed nurse. There's something very wrong with that picture.

    The numbers reflected in our comparative life expectancy point to the fact that sometimes we need to look at what others are doing better than us. We aren't the greatest at everything. Sometimes we aren't the leaders of the free world in all things, great and small, and we need to learn from others, such as our Canadian neighbors who apparently have a better healthcare system.
  7. by   blueyesue
    Quote from GardenDove
    Just because I critisize something about my country, btw, doesn't mean I should be told to like it or leave it.
    I was not implying that you should leave our country. I was only saying that those who wish to have that option. I apologize if it came out that way. :kiss Of course you have every right to speak up about what you don't like. (Another reason we have a great country)
    Last edit by blueyesue on Dec 10, '06
  8. by   GardenDove
    Quote from EJM
    I was not implying that you should leave our country. I was only saying that those who wish to have that option. I apologize if it came out that way. :kiss Of course you have every right to speak up about what you don't like. (Another reason we have a great country)
    I accept your kiss of peace...:icon_hug: :biere:

    Yes, I do think we have a great life here. There are so many good things about the United States.
  9. by   blueyesue
    Quote from GardenDove
    I accept your kiss of peace...:icon_hug: :biere:

    Yes, I do think we have a great life here. There are so many good things about the United States.
    Maybe there is the perfect solution out there. I'll let you know when I find it.
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    The perfect 'solution' is not more socialism, but more capitalism.

    The problem with the 'financing' of our system is that it is done almost exclusively by third party payors. The ultimate 'consumer' doesn't pay the bills and so, doesn't care what it costs.

    This goes all the way from medicaid users bring their kids to the ED at the first sign of a fever to 'insured' patients demanding everything at any costs.

    The solution is a universal 'catastrophic' coverage plan and healthcare accounts that require the individual consumer to hold some interest in what things actually cost.

    I also like the Massachusetts plan that makes insurance 'mandatory', like car insurance is in most states. If you don't buy your own plan, the gov't buys one for you and automatically deducts a pro-rated amount from your paycheck. There is an incentive to 'buy your own' if that pro-rated amount exceeds what it would cost to buy your own, and a subsidization of your insurance if that pay check isn't enough to merit 'buying your own'. In that way, everybody is covered but only those that cannot afford otherwise or who elect to do so would be covered by plans dictated by government.

    But, if you put not just choice, but cost in the hands of the ultimate consumer, most of the waste in the system would disappear as consumers directly responsible for paying for such things would 'shop' for cheaper deals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Dec 10, '06
  11. by   Fuzzy
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    American doctors are sought after.

    In truth, our medicine is is EXCELLENT medicine- IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

    If you can't, well, you're screwed.
    :yeahthat:

    So true, I just hope that I don't cancer. If I do, I'm dead.

    Fuzzy
  12. by   S.T.A.C.E.Y
    Quote from EJM
    Why do people all over the world come to America to get health procedures done? It is because we pay our doctors the best. We have the best healthcare in the world. That is a fact!
    If that is your belief, that is fine. But my question is, why would a move to allow your entire population access to this healthcare detract from your country having the "best healthcare in the world". The education of your medical professionals wouldn't change, would it? The standards your medical professionals would be held to wouldn't change, would it?

    The present health care system in the USA may provide the best health care in the world--but its to those who can afford it......those who can't pay for it, see a far different system than the one you are talking about.
  13. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from S.T.A.C.E.Y
    If that is your belief, that is fine. But my question is, why would a move to allow your entire population access to this healthcare detract from your country having the "best healthcare in the world". The education of your medical professionals wouldn't change, would it? The standards your medical professionals would be held to wouldn't change, would it?

    The present health care system in the USA may provide the best health care in the world--but its to those who can afford it......those who can't pay for it, see a far different system than the one you are talking about.
    Why is simple: the government can NEVER do things better then individuals with a motivated self-interest. Never. The world tried this and it is communism that is in the 'ash heaps', not capitalism.

    In truth, Hillary's plan in 1993 was dead on arrival when she recommended caps on medical training programs and specialities, basically, allowing the government to choose who goes to schools of medicine and what their specialities would be.

    Being slotted into a specialty is completely different then competing to do what is within your desire to do. That would create a whole caste of doctors not nearly as committed to being the 'best' because what they are doing may or may not be of ultimate interest to them.

    It also served to put the interests of doctors completely against the idea. In actuality, the concept is also completely against the interests of nurses, as well, but we place much more emphasis on altruistic vocationalism then we do professionalism.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.

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