A Lesson Learned

Nurses General Nursing

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Again, there is another thread started- which could be interpreted by some as passive-aggressive remarks about advanced degree nurses, and it could not. I read it and felt slightly insulted, and I responded. The thread now, appears to be taking on another ugly turn, and probably because I am involved. I sat here, after reading the replies, and started to feel exhausted again. Exhausted at feeling dismissed, put-down, not valued; all the things that nurses in general feel. I then thought back to when I was in school and when I decided to be a nurse.

I originally was a biology major. I loved the sciences and ultimately wanted to be a scientist. I worked in an environmental lab during college doing distillations and loved what I was learning. Somewhere, back in 1991 or 1992, I made the change to nursing. I also, while I enjoyed the sciences, loved infants and newborns and had a desire to take care of them. The nursing curriculum offered enough science courses to feed my hunger for them, and, would provide me the knowledge to obtain my RN license, so, I changed majors. At that time, I knew nothing of nursing as it is today. I did not know what an LPN was. I did not know that there were diploma programs and that nurses didn't have degrees. I assumed they all did. I thought nothing of it. I thought that all nurses were RNs and nothing else.

When I entered the curriculum, I then learned that no, not all nurses have BSNs. I learned how there used to be diploma programs, and how there are ADN programs. I learned in my management classes that, as a RN, I will most likely be delegating to other individuals to perform tasks. I learned that, as a BSN, I will be taught things that are not included in other programs. I learned that, as a BSN, I will have more opportunity to acquire positions that will possibly evoke change in the profession, or develop theories or test studies that could change how we practice. I was seeing this through the eyes of a young college student, who was eager to graduate and use what I've learned. I was eager to make a difference. Maybe my program was wrong is grooming us with this mindset, maybe it wasn't. But that is how I saw it at that time.

I then graduated college and it was the single most proudest moment of my life. As my academic hood was placed around my neck, and as I accepted my degree, and as I saw my family sitting in the crowd, looking at me realizing all the obstacles I had overcome, all the challenges I had faced, all the hours I had worked as a lab assistant, as a receptionist and as a bus-person to pay for school, I realized at that time, all that I had accomplished - and all that I had yet to do.

I started my nursing career in labor and delivery. I had a rough orientation, but loved learning the "skills" of L&D. I loved the challange that being an obstetric nurse provided. I joined AWHONN and attended conference after conference, read journal after journal, analyzing and critiquing the design, the method to see if I could apply it to my practice.

It was not until I joined internet communities that I came to learn that BSNs in fact, are not always valued by other nurses. No, other nurses don't look up to you for it. No, other nurses don't admire you for it. In fact, quite the opposite. Some people perceive BSNs as lacking basic skills, as having unnecessary classes, or, worse yet, as "just letters behind your name." I hear those comments, and I think back to my graduation day, and I almost want to cry. Cry at my choice to change my major back in 1991. Cry at the innocence that was lost the moment I became a working professional nurse. Now, I am hardened, suspicious, defensive and tired. I was disenchanted with the whole division of nursing, confused as to the roles each nurse played, stunned at the remarks about bachelor's degrees in general. Nursing made me what I am now: bitter.

I enrolled back into school because alot of the jobs I wanted as a nurse required a Master's degree. I also yearned to be back in that environment - the environment in which everyone is there to accomplish one thing - and that is to learn and to foster everyone else's learning. We read fellow graduate's theses and dissertations and are amazed at their findings and theories. We don't dismiss them or put them down because we LACK our Master's; in fact, we admire them. I have found that I can only function happily in the academic environment.

It was a sad realization, and I guess I just realized this now, after reading some of these threads. I feel the nursing profession has done nothing to foster my growth, but only hinder it. I am constantly reminded by my fellow nurses to "put my degree aside" and "keep myself in check." Do not tell anyone of your accomplishments - because, they aren't really what matters anyway. Well, it matters to me. :o

Thus, I retreat back to the hallowed halls of academia, to sequester in the quiet, somber alleys of the library filled with thousands of ideas that I have yet to discover. I find comfort in the old, creaky buildings from 1839 and the 200 year old Oak tree.

I guess, I wrote this thread to finally put into words what I've apparently felt for some time, but never really have been able to articulate. And I guess, I feel that I've given to my profession but haven't gotten anything back. Sometimes I feel that I should've stayed with biology.

I will make a difference in nursing, but it will not be at the bedside, I can almost guarantee you that. I will make my difference from afar, in writings and publications and research; in my ideas and theories, and, with my students. And, I feel that I am just as valuable in that regard as anyone who works at the bedside.

I just had to say that. :o

Mario chimes again, like an old fashioned Swiss clock ! :rolleyes:

The times in my life when i learned the most about myself, and was able to take an inventory of what I had upstairs, was when I was being attacked. I'm still not beyond this, as my nursing instructor has recently attacked me. I handed in a research paper that was half-assed because my verbal knowledge took the cake when I presented before the class. Because the other students were new and less "there" I figured my power stood for something, and she'd have to give me an A, when comparing me to other people. I put minimal effort in the research paper.:cool:

She shot me down hard, mentioning how much she expected from me, and how my paper was no reflection of me. Now I have to re-do the entire research paper, on Spring break, because I figured adequate effort would make it. This is where showing intelligence is sometimes uncool, and if you do, you have to hold your own standard at all times

Don't let education, or titles, make you complacent. There will be people who will call you on it, and shoot you down (in flames):(

Also, your educational degrees are only tests of your short-term memory. Your working and long-term memory is not really able to be put through the test. Some whipper-snapper CNA, LPN or RN, with a working memory like an optical disk drive, may listen to you and assess your "abilities"

Let people tear you down, if your foundation is weak. :kiss

Mario, thank you for letting me know that what I wrote made sense to someone. We can continue to argue over assine things that do nothing more than to keep harming the profession, or we can stop and think a minute and figure out why we are here and what we need to do to go forward.

Originally posted by mattsmom81

OK, Fergus, I'll bite here and offer some anecdote... :)

Ever worked with someone who seems oblivious to all that needs attention in the unit, ignoring ringing phones and beeping monitors to talk endlessly about him/herself, his/her degrees and high falutin' future plans? The nurse that walks onto the unit and immediately wants to draw attention, despite the fact you're trying to get shift report and/or handle a crisis?

I have.... too many times. Intrinsic pride is one thing, ego is another..... It's really NOT an education issue. It's an EGO issue, IMHO that is really behind the controversy on threads such as this one....

Dare I say this? MOST (not all, mind you, but MOST) nurses I have encountered in the above category have been BSN's...and I have to wonder 1) where this egotistical attitude comes from and 2) how is this helpful to anyone in nursing if we look at the big picture?

I understand about not liking working with nurses who don't do their job because they are concerned with their egos. I work with a couple nurses who are like that and brag about education or experience (the old "when I was in nursing school we were so much better than you newbies" type that are too busy sitting on their experienced bums to do any work and the "I am so smart I know everything from my BSN program" type). Both types drive me nuts, because they don't do their jobs. I would imagine you would be just as put off by a nurse who doesn't do her job for any reason whether she be an ADN or BSN. And let's face it, no one on this bb works with others here, so I don't see that as a reason to react hurtfully when a nurse here is proud of her education. No one knows how the other nurses function in their hospitals.

I agree that egotistical uncaring (key word being uncaring, I actually don't mind ego from people who do their jobs well) nurses are of no help to the profession. I also think that defensive nurses who enjoy ripping eachother down a peg are not doing the profession any good. We have way to many nurses who say "Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think you're special? Because you're not" if you have any pride in what you do.

I don't understand why we as nurses always see eachother as competition instead of as colleagues. Maybe it is because we are women, but I don't understand why we don't rejoice in eachother's accomplishments (and that includes getting an LPN liscence or an ADN degree or a BSN or an NP or surviving nursing for 20 years). I respect and admire nurses with more education, knowledge, experience or skills, than I have. I don't consider a nurse talking about her 20+ years of nursing as an insult to me because I am not that experienced yet. I appreciate that she has a lot to teach me, and yes, maybe there are some things I can share with her as well.

I don't understand why we aren't more supportive of eachother. With all the bs we have to put up with, why can't we encourage eachother to take pride in whatever we can????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by mario_ragucci

Also, your educational degrees are only tests of your short-term memory. Your working and long-term memory is not really able to be put through the test. Some whipper-snapper CNA, LPN or RN, with a working memory like an optical disk drive, may listen to you and assess your "abilities"

Let people tear you down, if your foundation is weak. :kiss

Ahhh yes they are. However, knowing that is what makes me strive for more. I noticed an immediate difference in a BSN program compared to a MSN program. My BSN program fed me facts and figures, which I memorized and regurgitated back, either in tests or papers. My MSN program assists me in taking that information and actually reflecting on it, putting it into practice, and using the information to build my own ideas and theories. We are graded more so on original thought than we are repeating of facts.

Looking back, I realize all there is that I don't know and wasn't taught to me in the BSN program, simply because there isn't any time to include it all. There is sooo much information that is yet to be learned about nursing. Every post of RNCountry's informs me, educates me, astounds me. But yet, some people on this board would like to think that I would dismiss her because she has a lesser degree than me. I don't - and that is obvious.

Because I defend my knowledge, because I refuse to be categorized, and because I feel a BSN is invaluable, and because I believe a Bachelor's only preps you for what you can learn in graduate school, I think some people take offense in that.

These are my ideas and my opinions. Bachelor's is so named because it signifies the beginning of one's education. The beginning. I firmly believe this. Some people don't, but hey, don't knock me for it. :D

I have learned to keep my mouth shut about BSN, CCRN. Every hospital I go to, I hear a conversation about how a C student is worth 5 A students. I do not know why people choose to feel an A student makes a bad nurse. But you can believe this A student is smart enough not to open herself up to being judged a poor nurse for achieving A's.

Specializes in Med-Surg.

Nurses don't need to cite their credentials to the world to prove they are valueable and valued. Our behavior proves that to patients, families, fellow workers, employers, and communities and to ourselves every day.

But once we assume the title "nurse", I feel we also assume the responsibility to continuously learn and grow in our field. Further education is vital to survive and to be safe.

So keep striving. Keep learning. Look for deeper understanding. Learn how to better advocate for yourself, your patients and your co-workers. If this education leads you from an LPN to an RN and on and on great. You will have one more "measureable" index of value to others.

Make a difference!

Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by lever5

I have learned to keep my mouth shut about BSN, CCRN. Every hospital I go to, I hear a conversation about how a C student is worth 5 A students. I do not know why people choose to feel an A student makes a bad nurse. But you can believe this A student is smart enough not to open herself up to being judged a poor nurse for achieving A's.

And that is the saddest of all.

Ok, you guys, THIS is why I started this thread. THIS is what I want to stop. An A student does NOT, and let me repeat, does NOTequal a bad nurse.

A BSN does NOT equal a bad nurse.

A "young" nurse does NOT equal a bad nurse.

A nurse who doesn't work at the bedside is NOT a bad nurse.

People's attitudes, egoes and insecurities equal a mean person, ie an LPN who looks down upon another LPN simply because she is 15 years younger than her, or, an LPN who frowns upon the RN simply because her schooling was different, or, an RN who dismisses the BSN as "book smart" because the last BSN she worked with was slow to pick up the pace on the floor.

Tell me, then, would it be acceptable for me to say that all black people are theives, because I got robbed by ONE? HELL NO.

So, let's cut with the stereotypes about RNs and about BSNs. There are some of us, myself included, who feel that an already excellent nurse would be even more excellent with a BSN. I am not bad for that. There is absolutely, positively, nothing wrong with further education. So let's stop making us, (actually ME) feel like we made the wrong choice at obtaining the BSN, or worse yet, the wrong choice in PROFESSIONS.

Originally posted by lever5

I have learned to keep my mouth shut about BSN, CCRN. Every hospital I go to, I hear a conversation about how a C student is worth 5 A students. I do not know why people choose to feel an A student makes a bad nurse. But you can believe this A student is smart enough not to open herself up to being judged a poor nurse for achieving A's.

That's an odd opinion to have. How in Gods' name can someone who coasts along with a "C" be sooo much better than the hard working "A" student? I don't get it. That's downright nuts! All of my evals from both hospitals I work at are glowing postive. Guess I'd better not let them know I graduated summa cum laude and have plans to return for BSN. CCRN is on my list of things to do also. Wow.....I MUST be a demon huh? lol:devil:

Lever...is this a southern thing?

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Furball,

People have that opinion because they believe that A students only memorized facts and never learned to "apply" them.

People think 4.0 students lack common-sense and are only "book smart." Take the books away and they are lost.

I know, it's a crappy opinion to hold. Usually, and it has been my experience, that those people who hold that opinion barely passed themselves. And usually those who did get a 4.0 can see the difference in themselves and those who are truly "book smart" only - and they also learn not to make blanket statements like that.

Originally posted by tapper

To anyone who does not appreciate a cynical view of this thread . . . please stop reading . . . now.

Susi, I can hear the frustration in your voice/words . . . but I believe you should be far less concerned about how others percieve you or your accomplishments and concentrate on what is obviously your passion in life, nursing.

:D This deserves to be quoted!

If we truly feel good about ourselves (intrinsic pride)

we don't need to flaunt ourselves and seek outside approval......thank you Tapper! :cool:

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.

...Happy Easter! I hope everyone had a spiritually reflective & peaceful day...as much as possible for those who had to work or aren't here due to the war. I hope everyone got a chance to spend this joyous day/evening with their love ones & friends for as we all know from September 11th, life is too short. I just wanted to share my thought & wishes with all of my fellow nursing colleagues and new found friends here at All Nurses.com BB; I do think about, respect, & appreciate you all very much.:kiss ;) :):chuckle:roll:blushkiss:D :p :cool:

Sincerely - Moe

Specializes in SICU.

I have a question. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I don't give a hoot about a nurse's initials, as long as the effort is there and I have some decent knowledgeable backup in a crisis.

For those BSNs pursuing a Master's: Exactly how much clinical experience do you feel you should have before you are allowed to become a nursing instructor? My husband is in his third clinical semester of an ADN program. He has been an LPN for 14 years, and spent half of that in the military working in ICU. He is VERY experienced. One of his first semester instructors spent ONE year working in a DOCTOR'S OFFICE before obtaining her MSN and becoming an instructor.

While I appreciate and respect her book knowledge, how the hell can she teach a student ANYTHING about bedside nursing? She's NEVER DONE IT.

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