A Lesson Learned

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Again, there is another thread started- which could be interpreted by some as passive-aggressive remarks about advanced degree nurses, and it could not. I read it and felt slightly insulted, and I responded. The thread now, appears to be taking on another ugly turn, and probably because I am involved. I sat here, after reading the replies, and started to feel exhausted again. Exhausted at feeling dismissed, put-down, not valued; all the things that nurses in general feel. I then thought back to when I was in school and when I decided to be a nurse.

I originally was a biology major. I loved the sciences and ultimately wanted to be a scientist. I worked in an environmental lab during college doing distillations and loved what I was learning. Somewhere, back in 1991 or 1992, I made the change to nursing. I also, while I enjoyed the sciences, loved infants and newborns and had a desire to take care of them. The nursing curriculum offered enough science courses to feed my hunger for them, and, would provide me the knowledge to obtain my RN license, so, I changed majors. At that time, I knew nothing of nursing as it is today. I did not know what an LPN was. I did not know that there were diploma programs and that nurses didn't have degrees. I assumed they all did. I thought nothing of it. I thought that all nurses were RNs and nothing else.

When I entered the curriculum, I then learned that no, not all nurses have BSNs. I learned how there used to be diploma programs, and how there are ADN programs. I learned in my management classes that, as a RN, I will most likely be delegating to other individuals to perform tasks. I learned that, as a BSN, I will be taught things that are not included in other programs. I learned that, as a BSN, I will have more opportunity to acquire positions that will possibly evoke change in the profession, or develop theories or test studies that could change how we practice. I was seeing this through the eyes of a young college student, who was eager to graduate and use what I've learned. I was eager to make a difference. Maybe my program was wrong is grooming us with this mindset, maybe it wasn't. But that is how I saw it at that time.

I then graduated college and it was the single most proudest moment of my life. As my academic hood was placed around my neck, and as I accepted my degree, and as I saw my family sitting in the crowd, looking at me realizing all the obstacles I had overcome, all the challenges I had faced, all the hours I had worked as a lab assistant, as a receptionist and as a bus-person to pay for school, I realized at that time, all that I had accomplished - and all that I had yet to do.

I started my nursing career in labor and delivery. I had a rough orientation, but loved learning the "skills" of L&D. I loved the challange that being an obstetric nurse provided. I joined AWHONN and attended conference after conference, read journal after journal, analyzing and critiquing the design, the method to see if I could apply it to my practice.

It was not until I joined internet communities that I came to learn that BSNs in fact, are not always valued by other nurses. No, other nurses don't look up to you for it. No, other nurses don't admire you for it. In fact, quite the opposite. Some people perceive BSNs as lacking basic skills, as having unnecessary classes, or, worse yet, as "just letters behind your name." I hear those comments, and I think back to my graduation day, and I almost want to cry. Cry at my choice to change my major back in 1991. Cry at the innocence that was lost the moment I became a working professional nurse. Now, I am hardened, suspicious, defensive and tired. I was disenchanted with the whole division of nursing, confused as to the roles each nurse played, stunned at the remarks about bachelor's degrees in general. Nursing made me what I am now: bitter.

I enrolled back into school because alot of the jobs I wanted as a nurse required a Master's degree. I also yearned to be back in that environment - the environment in which everyone is there to accomplish one thing - and that is to learn and to foster everyone else's learning. We read fellow graduate's theses and dissertations and are amazed at their findings and theories. We don't dismiss them or put them down because we LACK our Master's; in fact, we admire them. I have found that I can only function happily in the academic environment.

It was a sad realization, and I guess I just realized this now, after reading some of these threads. I feel the nursing profession has done nothing to foster my growth, but only hinder it. I am constantly reminded by my fellow nurses to "put my degree aside" and "keep myself in check." Do not tell anyone of your accomplishments - because, they aren't really what matters anyway. Well, it matters to me. :o

Thus, I retreat back to the hallowed halls of academia, to sequester in the quiet, somber alleys of the library filled with thousands of ideas that I have yet to discover. I find comfort in the old, creaky buildings from 1839 and the 200 year old Oak tree.

I guess, I wrote this thread to finally put into words what I've apparently felt for some time, but never really have been able to articulate. And I guess, I feel that I've given to my profession but haven't gotten anything back. Sometimes I feel that I should've stayed with biology.

I will make a difference in nursing, but it will not be at the bedside, I can almost guarantee you that. I will make my difference from afar, in writings and publications and research; in my ideas and theories, and, with my students. And, I feel that I am just as valuable in that regard as anyone who works at the bedside.

I just had to say that. :o

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Well, if this thread gets closed, then it gets closed. I was venting my feelings, my realizations, my conclusions about the nursing profession. I may be seen as bitter, and I guess I am. I felt I was a bright young professional, who was beaten down by my very colleagues.

My license will NEVER be just letters. My degree will NEVER be just letters. They probably always will be to some people, and that's fine I guess; I can't change the world. But I can make a difference in MY life. And, as nurse who will have her Master's degree in 3 years, I proudly say, I will NOT be less a nurse for it!

And, as Fergus stated, in a profession as oppressed as ours, be proud of whatever you can! I want to stand on a mountain-top and cry out:

Yes, I am a BSN. I do bedside care, I have "wiped butts" and emptied bedpans. I CAN start IVs and am good in skills. I am proud of my accomplishments and the accomplishments of my colleagues. I look to my colleagues for guidance, advice, and knowledge. I am a nurse who wants to make a change in the profession for the better. I am not lazy nor bossy. I work hard and have worked hard. I will continue to work hard. I may not always work at the bedside, but I will still be an important part of the nursing profession.

I want to dispell all myths and misconceptions about nurses, but in particular, about RNs and about BSNs.

Susy-I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the closed thread. You wanted to post your feelings and did so eloquently. I was refering to the fact that GreytNurses's latest thread was closed and then SKM-NURSIEPOOH decides to quote here from that closed thread. I don't want to see YOUR thread get all mucked up and just become a continuation of the thread that was just closed.

Susy K - There is this pip-squeak guy, who just got a CNA license and an entry level position at a huge hospital who adores you. He adores you because of the learning you generate for him. He loves the way you put down your feelings, and loves to read other nurses responses to them. To that new CNA guy, your expressions mean the world.

This new CNA guy thinks it is more the milli-second to milli-second caring ability you have which determines your value as a health worker. Even though this CNA is "just a CNA" and one day wants to have a BSN like you, he knows his ability (value) to care was created long before he cracked an anatomy book.

He says, "If anyone is throwing around their education credentials they are counterfiet."

Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by RNPD

Susy-I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the closed thread. You wanted to post your feelings and did so eloquently. I was refering to the fact that GreytNurses's latest thread was closed and then SKM-NURSIEPOOH decides to quote here from that closed thread. I don't want to see YOUR thread get all mucked up and just become a continuation of the thread that was just closed.

I know, I figured that out after re-reading your post. But, I fear, THIS thread may be closed. If it does, so be it. My mission was accomplished. :)

Hey Mario - kisses to you. :kiss

Just for the record I love you all. I do find value in the education that I am receiving in continuing on to a BSN, and I do not appologize for that.

I also find immense value in the experience and education of everyone here. Once again, I will say I learn EVERY day from CNA's, LPN's, ADN, etc. who have experience, education, knowldege and wisdom that I do not.:kiss

RN LPN and BSN are different that does not mean any is less valuable. As I said before I have learned NEW information in each one of these programs. If this is not your experience, then it is not. That does not change the facts for anyone else. :kiss :kiss

I think a lot of us who sound elitist also FEEL as I do but somehow are not always heard that way. Most of us came into this profession with an altruistic heart. Please remember we dont' always express ourselves well or sensitively.

We also can't be aware what other things are simmering inside a listener, which may cloud the reception of our message. I know I have unfairly exploded at a nurse's innocent remarks because I ALREADY had hurt feels about something else. AND come to find out the first thing I was hurt about was also a misinterpetation on my part. Sometimes I take myself too seriously and I need to lighten up. :imbar That is not to say my feelings were hurt here. I just became disgusted and changed my email notification.

Susy, you go girl.

Yep, it's true....can't say you're a BSN and that you're proud of your degree on this website without being accused of being 'elitist' or 'snobby' or a nurse who does no work or has no skills. It's so totally acceptable to bash a BSN nurse here that it's almost en vogue.

It's not unusual, though. I actually went out of my way when waiting tables during college to conceal the fact that I was a university student so that my fellow co-workers would stay off my back about being (in their minds) a 'rich little college girl.' Never mind the fact that I wasn't 'rich,' wasn't snobby, and didn't look down on them for not going to college....didn't matter.

I agree with you wholly and am sick and tired of not being 'allowed' to be proud of my degree on this site. So, let 'em call us 'elitist,' 'closed-minded (loved THAT one....interesting logic, or lack thereof...),' 'snobby' and say that we have no skills, yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. Be angry, be hostile, say whatever you want....I'm proud of my degree, I'm proud of my accomplishments, I'm a good nurse, and I refuse to apologize for any of it.

...Should I input this discussion or not? I certainly don't want to offend anyone or ruffle any feathers... I haven't read the prior threads, but will guess that this is "a conflict of initials"... Hence, I will not then tell you mine...

I am a well-qualified, very experienced NURSE! I have worked with, for, above, below, been-oriented-by and oriented nurses of all educational backgrounds... AND I have seen good and bad nurses from all types of programs - those who care deeply about others, and those who care mostly about theirselves... I have known "high-tech" or very knowledgeable nurses without human compassion, and other nurses with much less knowledge, skill, or education who brought such warmth and compassion to each bedside that I marveled at their care...

I have excelled in many areas of nursing that require the most sophisticated clinical expertise and technical skills... But, have always felt most gratified, valuable, or personally rewarded at "the bedside"... where nurses and patients are just 2 people, a touch or a tear can convey a thousand words or fears, and mere initials on a name tag are meaningless... I have helped heal the living, touched the hearts of the dying... and hence, matured and become a better person and nurse from these experiences...

I have had many great moments of joy and many of deep sorrow and pain... I have questioned every aspect of life, death, and the-in-between... I have searched my soul for answers, wanted to run and hide, and come back again and again...

....the wonder of serving is when we meet the needs of others, forgetting about our own, and yet somehow in the process - meet our own needs too...

Specializes in SICU.

I don't begrudge anyone their initials... mine are ADN, for now. The only thing I ask from my coworkers is a 100% effort to nurse the ill in our unit, and to do so without thinking that a degree difference makes one a better bedside nurse than another. There is much more involved in the technical aspect of nursing than a degree.

NOW, that said, I DO believe that it would be beneficial for ALL nurses if those that are in the "upper ranks" with advanced degrees would at least have some decent bedside experience before becoming managers and telling those below them how to nurse with less, when they (the manager) can't nurse her/his way out of a wet paper sack! (Forgive the grammar errors...)

Lastly, I have great respect and regard for those who have gone through the lengths it takes to get through an advanced degree program. I'm slowly ticking away at mine myself, with the hopes of teaching one day. I think EVERY nurse needs to be proud of his/her initials, no matter what they are. I worked hard for my little ol' ADN, and I'm a damned good nurse if I do say so myself.

Some of the best nurses I've seen have NOT had advanced degrees, and some of the worst I've seen HAVE. BUT, it also goes the other way. I guess it just depends on the person and how motivated they are to make the effort to be the difference in a patient's life, a student's life, whoever's life.

I guess to sum it up, it all depends on who you are inside, despite the degree. If you're dedicated, then be proud of yourself, no matter what your level of education!

(Now stepping down off the soap box.:))

((((((Suzy K)))))) :kiss:

To anyone who does not appreciate a cynical view of this thread . . . please stop reading . . . now.

Susi, I can hear the frustration in your voice/words . . . but I believe you should be far less concerned about how others percieve you or your accomplishments and concentrate on what is obviously your passion in life, nursing.

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.

QUOTE:Originally posted by shay

Yep, it's true....can't say you're a BSN and that you're proud of your degree on this website without being accused of being 'elitist' or 'snobby' or a nurse who does no work or has no skills. It's so totally acceptable to bash a BSN nurse here that it's almost en vogue...Shay

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As I've said before, the point is totally missed. No one on this thread or on the other recently closed thread are bashing or attacking the BSNs and Advance Level Degree Nurses & no one is against continued education. The comments made was against those individuals whom "look-down" on the lower level, non-degree nurses & have made their point of view known. It wasn't in anyway directed at BSNs and Advance Level Degree Nurses as a whole. I'm currently a BSN student with designs to further my education by specializing in anesthesia...be it MSN level or beyond. So naturally, I have no ill feelings towards BSNs or Advanced Level Degree Nurses. I just wish that everyone can read each other's posts without having to take one side or the other. I wished that when people read the posts, they can keep an open mind on a topic that's near & dear to the heart without thinking that someone is attacking.

QUOTE: It's not unusual, though. I actually went out of my way when waiting tables during college to conceal the fact that I was a university student so that my fellow co-workers would stay off my back about being (in their minds) a 'rich little college girl.' Never mind the fact that I wasn't 'rich,' wasn't snobby, and didn't look down on them for not going to college....didn't matter...Shay

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I commend your attitude as it is my own. I've always maintained my professionalism whenever I'm at work, in school, or writing on this board. I've always take care as to how I communicate my messages. It seems that what I wrote was taken out of context...so, I'm taking steps to have those of you who didn't understand me before to understand me now.

QUOTE: I agree with you wholly and am sick and tired of not being 'allowed' to be proud of my degree on this site...Shay

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No one is saying that you (meaning BSNs or Advance Level Degree Nurses) can't express how proud you are of your accomplishments. I think that a lot of us are in awe of all the various specialities & are truely interested in hearing everyone's experiences. That's why we all come here to All Nurses BB to read what's going on in our profession. By reading these post, may give that person the inspiration needed to take that next step in their education & career.

QUOTE: So, let 'em call us 'elitist,' 'closed-minded (loved THAT one....interesting logic, or lack thereof...),' 'snobby' and say that we have no skills, yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. Be angry, be hostile, say whatever you want....Shay

It's to those "closed minded" or "snobby" individuals whom I'm impluring to. I ask them to change their narrow view their fellow nurses.

QUOTE:I'm proud of my degree, I'm proud of my accomplishments, I'm a good nurse, and I refuse to apologize for any of it...Shay

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Yes. be proud, be very proud of who you are & of what you do...being a nurse is one of the most selfless career that one can strive to achieve. No one needs to apologize for being proud of their accomplishments...NO ONE!

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.
Originally posted by fergus51

Why is it bragging and snobbery for a nurse to be proud of her education? Nurses are such a discouraged bunch I say be proud of whatever you can, whether it be education, experience, fashion sense, cooking ability, scrub patterns, whatever!! I wish people would realize that pride in your accomplishments doesn't equal insults to someone else. Be proud, be happy with yourself and encourage others to be proud and happy with themselves.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments & expressing that...as long as it's not at someone else's expense.

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.
Originally posted by Susy K

Here, here!

And also...comments, whether they are from an LPN or an RN, about one's usefulness or worth should NOT be tolerated. And those who choose to defend themselves against such comments should not be seen as evil.

Hi Susy K,

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on your point that of one's usefulness or worth (LPN or RN) SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED? Did you really mean that or did you mean that their usefulness or worth SHOULD BE TOLERATED?

I just want to understand you correctly - thanks...Moe.

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