Nurses Eat Their Young

Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 13, 2006

Is Tweety right? Are there merely a few "trolls" out there who are the problem? Or is this pervasive? I thought the phrase "nurses eat their young" was a joke until I came across it in a text book.

Let me put it this way.

I can only speak from my 15 years of experience, 14 of which were spent in various units in one hospital I work in now.

It's pervasive enough that one should look out for it and learn how to cope with it, if and when they come across it.

However, I still think the number of nurses out there that actually actively eat their young is small when measured against the total population of nurses and it's unfair to lable our profession as one that eats it's young.

I have to wonder, how do nurses become the ones that eat their young, if each batch of new grads screams nurses eat their young. Obviously these new grads themselves become ones who eat their young. Is it a vicious cycle?

I've seen many a thread when a new grad comes here and bemoans "why do nurses eat their young", and when it all comes down to it they are really talking about one nurse out of the dozens they've come across in their young career.

I also think there are varying degrees of what people define as eating their young. I define it as out and out bullying, or at least disrespect directly to the new grad.

Other people define it differently such as those who don't roll out the welcome matt and spread positivity. Or those that gossip about the new person (although I've never worked anywhere in any profession where it wasn't asked "what do you think of the new guy").

Nursing unfortunately is a profession, where during the orientation process and there after, it's sink or swim. I'm not sure they're any other way to do it when it's a life and death situation where only the strong can survive. This might be considered eating our young, but it's reality. The meek need not apply.

I am in no way shape or form saying eating of our young should be tolerated, in fact I'm the role model preceptor and welcome wagon to students and new grads on my unit. I had three new grads ask to me precept them this past month. :)

Danianne · Oct 14, 2006

NOPE not at all :) they just roll you around in the dirt a bit and kinda just nibble a little. Just kidding hope you are okay

gobucksCRNA · Oct 14, 2006

Some peole are just miserable no matter what. I encountered this same thing in the ICU. You just tell them,"Oh, I'm sorry. I suppose you exited the womb knowing everything you need to know..."

DO NOT be afraid to ever stand up for yourself whether you're new or not! As long as you are trying your best. Most nurses who are like that lack some ability (be it cognitive or physical) and that's how they compensate!

ortess1971 · Oct 14, 2006

NOPE not at all :) they just roll you around in the dirt a bit and kinda just nibble a little. Just kidding hope you are okay

:roll I was drinking my coffee when I read this and almost spit it out on the computer screen! The visual is what did it LOL

DeLana_RN, BSN, RN · Oct 14, 2006

Yes, they do! They sure made a meal out of me in my first job - chewed me up and spat me out :eek: I was on an oncology floor run by an evil dictator and her minions - the horror story is posted in hica19's thread below (no, I can't repeat it, I'm trying to forget about it but it haunts me still ).

This was 8 years ago, but I'm sure some of these old-timers are still around. And it wasn't just the old-timers - some younger nurses (who probably endured the same fate as new grads) model themselves after them. Maybe the attitude is, "I had to pay my dues - now it's your turn?" Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought we're :nurse: who are trying to help people (OK, I do realize that my idealism has gotten me in trouble before, but I do find it hard to believe that people actually enter this profession to hurt others?!)

That said, I've had enough experience by now to know that not everyone entered the profession for altruistic reasons (maybe nowadays they're the minority). Let's face it - years ago, many women thought they only had a choice between secretary/teacher/nurse; in many regions, especially rural, other employment opportunities may just not be there. And the pay has become quite attractive (OK, this varies, other topic though). My point: there are indeed lots of people in the profession now that are in it for the wrong reasons (IMHO) and therefore hate the "unpleasant" aspects of the job. What do miserable individuals often do? They lash out, of course. Convenient target? The newbie, i.e., new grad. Vicious cycle, indeed.

* * *

Note to early2bed,early2rise:

The job you just left was obviously not your first one (you have 1+ years experience?) You have two options: Tell a prospective employer that this was just not a good fit for you or don't list the job at all. In my last job I watched two seasoned RNs get chewed up and spat out during their "training period" (no, nurses don't just eat their young - nurses eat their own as well! I tried to help, but they were set up to fail. But I digress.) Anyway, both of them quit within 5-6 weeks without any notice (good for them!), which means the employer would be justified to tell that to anyone calling for a reference.

I asked nurse friends why these nurses would risk a bad reference and was told, "They just don't list such a job." Hmm... good idea. No application nowadays requires you to list all previous employment anymore, and even some pesky questions ("Have you ever been fired or asked to resign?") have been eliminated. Sign of the times - nurses rule!!!!

Good luck to you, you'll do fine.

DeLana :)

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2006

Yesterday at orientation we had a talk about nurses eating their young (and believe it or not, my mind did an involuntary *groan* :chuckle)

I pointed out that while there are certainly experienced nurses who seem to be unforgiving to the newbies - there are also many newbies with a stupid little "entitlement" mentality. I said that:

"saying nurses eat their young absolves the young of any responsibility for their behaviour.

I can understand the generational gap and all that but basic courtesy and professionalism extends both ways. Yes, there are older nurses who could use an attitude adjustment - but some of the younger nurses are NOT doing themselves any favours either.

This isn't a "cut and dry" situtation and I strongly believe that by and large we nurses tend to get along."

It taketh two to tango.

cheers,

PS: Great post Tweety :)

Danianne · Oct 15, 2006

Acutally I just declined a job offer on this basis alone. I was told that i might have a "hard time" with some of the more experienced staff members.

PANurseRN1 · Oct 15, 2006

Yesterday at orientation we had a talk about nurses eating their young (and believe it or not, my mind did an involuntary *groan* :chuckle)
I pointed out that while there are certainly experienced nurses who seem to be unforgiving to the newbies - there are also many newbies with a stupid little "entitlement" mentality. I said that:
"saying nurses eat their young absolves the young of any responsibility for their behaviour.
I can understand the generational gap and all that but basic courtesy and professionalism extends both ways. Yes, there are older nurses who could use an attitude adjustment - but some of the younger nurses are NOT doing themselves any favours either.
This isn't a "cut and dry" situtation and I strongly believe that by and large we nurses tend to get along."
It taketh two to tango.
cheers,
PS: Great post Tweety :)

That was an excellent post, Roy!

DeLana_RN, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2006

Acutally I just declined a job offer on this basis alone. I was told that i might have a "hard time" with some of the more experienced staff members.

Good for you! You are wise to listen to your gut feeling on this and are very fortunate that you were given this warning at all.

Good luck you, and always trust your instincts - when job hunting and in your first weeks on the job. To state the obvious, it's always better to quit after a short time (and easily explained in nursing) than finally being forced to resign or even getting fired.

DeLana :)

VivaRN · Oct 15, 2006

My current job is in a place where I was warned "sometimes they have a hard time accepting new grads." And it was very difficult for awhile, but I know that every workplace has some version of "the in-crowd" and "sink or swim". My new-grad friends in teaching and business ran into the same thing: gossip, people choosing who they will help, being set up. But if there's one spot of positivity, one ally ~ I found that one experienced nurse and learned everything (that I couldn't learn from a book!) from her. Gradually the others came to respect me when they saw I could be trusted in the critical care environment. It is my belief that if you are a certain kind of person, you will attract certain kinds of people. If you stick it out and hold onto your values, you will find those other nurses like you.

early2bed,early2rise · Oct 16, 2006

thanks freedom42! sorry it took me a bit to get back to this thread. I really thought a lot about some of the questions you presented. The truth of the matter is that my conversation with the nurse manager really did not draw light to the problems going on. Although she had asked me on several occassions if there was anything that she or the staff, could do, she never listened to what I was trying to point out. Her offers of help were empty and she didnt listen or accept my concerns. And for the record: I am by no means, a cry baby. It became apparent that the problems on the unit were planted by the management and the cycles were set into place. I really wanted to believe that it wasnt all "just me", so I ended up convincing myself that I left on good terms. That being not of my own definition, but at least feeling somewhat okay that I recieved the manager's "pat on the back" and that she offered to be a reference for me. As I've put more thought into it, it is clear that anything I had to say during our "farewell" talk, was not going to change anything. Now I have to remind myself of what I've learned from this experience and at the same time, feel good that I made the choice to leave instead of staying in such an unhealthy workplace.

Delana RN: thanks for your advice as well. in some cases i mention the job and in others i dont. after discussing this situation with different recruiters, it seems to be quite common that nurses come and go and that i really dont need to put that experience down on my resume if it would not be an asset. the nurse manager offered to give me a good referral, but i dont even want it from her!

grentea · Oct 16, 2006

This week on my unit, a new RN who had been orienting on day shift started on my evening shift, which will be her pemanent position. Her usual day shift preceptor did a double and I don't usually work with her. I felt so terrible for her when I saw how her preceptor was treating her. Her preceptor called her "retarded" behind her back. Of course my other co-workers and I were shocked. I've been really stressed at my job. Our unit had a stretch of highly acute patients with not-so-great staffing, and I was charge nurse every day through it all. So I got a little fried and plus I've only been around on my floor for about 7 months, otherwise I would have been happy to be her preceptor. I helped her with whatever questions she had during my shift and was extra nice and encouraging to her. I just felt absolutely awful for her. I went through a similar situation with a domineering and insulting preceptor, and I know it's hard in the beginning anyways. There's just no reason to be mean to new nurses, unless you have some sort of mean streak and need to take it out on someone vulnerable. I've been particularly angry with that day shift nurse who is trying to scare new nurses off of MY shift! My advice to the new RNs out there is to find the nice nurses on the unit and hang out with us, and of course always consider how welcoming a unit is to new grads.