Nurses, physicians weigh in on new doctoral nurse degree

Vito Andolini · May 24, 2009

I have seen the same attitude from MDs in regaurds to DOs. I think it is important to point out the vetrinarians, podiatrists, dentists, and chiropractors all carry the title of "Dr". So, if someone said "is there a Dr around," should a veternarian stand up? Give me a break!

well, if the patient is a horse, YES! :jester: :devil:

Vito Andolini · May 24, 2009

My own recent illness has taught me, once again, that the poor patient is shortchanged by the degree of specialization he faces in today's medical world.

I have seen a chiropractor (who is a great chiropractor but whose method helped me only minimally, at serious cost, not covered by insurance), an internist (who is definitely behind the times in his specialty but, since I am a nurse, I can protect myself from him by insisting that he do or not do certain things, but pity the poor patient who is defenseless and doesn't recognize when this doctor flubs up), 2 physical therapists who were both wonderful yet still did not see the whole picture, and 2 pain specialists. One of the latter should be cast out to sea without a lifeboat. The other is better but also has his shortcomings. So far, I can manage him and work with him well enough. Ah, and let's not forget the DEA, which wants to control what doctors order, when and how much. Damn the patient, who is reduced from being a self-reliant individual, working and contributing to society, raising and supporting a family to a pain-dominated, constipated by opiates yet still in pain, pathetic shadow of his former self. And the various pharmacists who tell you that you must run completely out of your pain Rx before they will refill it (terrifying to think I might have to go thru withdrawal from opiates because of the DEA/pharmacy bullpuckey). And this is modern America, leaders of the free world. Shame on all of these heartless monsters, unthinking bureaucrats who can get all the pain med they need, no doubt, but who limit the rest of us to what they think is best for us. They sit in an office, never see actual patients, make rules to justify their high pay. A pox on them.

The problem is that no one, no one, except me the nurse-patient, sees the whole picture. No one feels my pain exactly. some are into the x rays, some are into the skeleton, some are into relaxation and reflexes. None except yours truly sees the entire big picture.

And God help the patient who can't fend for himself. To be sick and still have to deal with employers and FMLA, as well as with insurers and all their rigamarole, as well as coders who miscode so that the insurer tells you on the EOB that such and such is not covered - it is a nightmare. It is why we need a universal health plan. No one should have to endure such insanity. It is terrible to know that no one really cares about me except to see how little they can spend on me or make from treating me, it feels like. Some of the people had better attitudes than others, or seemed to.

ivanh3 · May 24, 2009

Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."

They should both step aside and let the paramedic through.

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · May 26, 2009

On the "Dr" front: If I'm in trouble and go down at the grocery store in town, I'd be happier to see my cat's vet than a couple of the docs I work with. I'd be happier still to see some of the LPNs I work with. And the NPs I know are in the category of "work twice as hard to be thought of as half as good" and I'd trust them with my life. We've got a 1st assist in our OR who's an LPN, and I'd rather she tried to take out my appendix than at least 2 of our surgeons (she at least maintains sterile technique!)

Assuming and hoping I get there, I'll be pleased to say, "I'm Nerd, and I'm your NP(or DP). So what brought you in tonight?"

Wsmith16, ADN, BSN · May 29, 2009

The use of the word "doctor" would cause harm as it would cAUSE CONFUSION & MISLEAD patients. An MD has every right to be concerned about this new title given to nurses.

edowhitetop · May 30, 2009

Many specialists, although they can put M.D. behind their names, are so long out of touch with the basics that they would be of little help in a crisis. It is actually a matter of knowing what to do. My grandmother, who did not have a lot of formal education but was an experienced midwife, delivered me - and I was born breech. If she had said she could help in any other medical emergency, I would have accepted her word for it.

elkpark · May 30, 2009

The use of the word "doctor" would cause harm as it would cAUSE CONFUSION & MISLEAD patients. An MD has every right to be concerned about this new title given to nurses.

It's not a "title" being "given" to nurses that is being discussed -- it's an earned degree. A nurse with an earned doctorate has as much right to be called "Doctor" as anyone with an earned doctorate in any discipline.

lamazeteacher · May 31, 2009

It's not confusing at all, except in the minds of those who don't understand that universities confer doctorates in a variety of subjects, one of which is nursing....... what's the big deal?

Long ago, when doctors were the main people using Dr. to get a table at a popular restaurant, others used it, too. Restauranteurs didn't seem to mind. The only problem that I can see with that, is when a "heimlich" technique is needed and the maitre d' comes to the Dr of poetry's table for help, he/she should darn well know how to do it. Of course a Dr. of nursing would, unless, like the poet, he/she has been in the "ivory tower" too long, without recertification in CPR!

Name badges for "doctors of nursing" should have that on them, and then the only problem would be irate MDs who are jealous.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Jun 1, 2009

Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."

That's because the poet is surely educated enough to understand that the flight attendant is asking for a physician.

My dad has a PhD in biology, does not work in academia, and uses the title "Dr." I had an English teacher in high school who had a PhD and we also referred to her as "Dr."

At the hospital I volunteered at, everyone wore ID badges and the NPs, PAs and physicians wore lab coats with their name and degree on them. It seems like any further confusion can easily be taken care of in the introduction.

edowhitetop · Jun 2, 2009

My dad always worked for precision in our speech. If we twisted a sentence or used the wrong word, he would respond to what we had said rather than what he knew we intended to say. So the correct question would be, "Is there a physician here?'

Frankie2010 · Oct 4, 2009

I don't think that phasing out the masters NP degree to a doctoral degree will help in anyway to alleviate the Physician shortage. In fact, I think it will do just the opposite, many BSN nurses wouldn't even be remotely interested in dishing out 120 to 200K (depending on state or private school) for a doctorate degree in nursing, when doing so wouldn't really increase their marketability or salary by that much. They will never make as much as a Primary Care Physician since Primary Care Physicians have to put in another 3-4 years residency after their 4 year MD and even their salary is often too low to quickly pay off their tremendous debt obligation. So why even force this mandatory change? Who stands to gain? Well Universities will make alot more money and also since it'll create a bigger shortage for primary care clinicians, already practicing NPs might see a marginal increase in their salaries. Why is there even a shortage of nurses and physicians in the first place? It's because too much red tape has been created by accrediting associations etc in order to benefit already practicing clinicians. Everyone is too afraid their salary will decrease (which most likely will be the case) if all these shortages are met by future graduates. If you look at European countries that don't have a physician/nursing shortage, you'll find that their salaries are considerably lower, Physicians make $60,000 to $120,000 according to a UK 2004 based study. I think the solution to all this shortage mess is to make higher education free to citizens, just like it is in most European countries...then it really wouldn't matter if Physicians and NPs/PAs etc. made much less then they do right now.

Batman24 · Oct 4, 2009

It's not a "title" being "given" to nurses that is being discussed -- it's an earned degree. A nurse with an earned doctorate has as much right to be called "Doctor" as anyone with an earned doctorate in any discipline.

Agreed. If you earn the degree then you earn the title. Wear a name badge with your title and introduce yourself appropriately to the patient.