DNP seems like a waste...

Specialties Doctoral

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Anyone else think the powers that be wasted a great opportunity with the DNP recommended curriculum? I seems to be mainly research focused, with little (if any) advanced clinical knowledge. What's the point? It would have been a wonderful way to increase the anemic clinical hours in NP programs (from 600ish to a more respectable 1500+). Thoughts?

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I am in a BSN to DNP program. I just completed year 1. I do believe we have many classes that will not help me to be a better provider. I'm tired of 10-20+ page papers. I have no plans to work in research in the future. I believe these are the types of things that hold our profession back. Quite honestly if I wasn't so far into it I would apply to PA school. I believe they receive more hands on experience and that is what is needed.

If you don't understand research then how do you employ EBP in practice? If no NPs learn research, who is then expected to drive EBP? Is it for everyone, yes and no. Is it good for the profession, yes.

These are things you have a much better appreciation of once you are out of the sheltered environment of school once you have mastered the basics and can begin to consider improving your practice.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Education is supposed to be hard- especially when you are expected to MASTER a subject in depth. If you're not interested in the depth, then just stop at BSN.

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Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.

I think it is a valid to ask whether the extra year of school for "research" is truly focused on clinically applicable information? Or is it a year of nursing theory, "leadership," and other filler to charge students for in exchange for credit hours and credential inflation?

For example, Mom to 4's complaint about papers: are these 10-20 page papers useful and applicable or are they more like RN school busy-work drivel?

Useful: "write 20 pages discussing the latest longitudinal findings on heart disease modifiable risk factors and pharmacological management and relate it to key practice goals for best management of a patient in the primary care environment"

Drivel: "write 20 pages discussing how five different nursing theorists would approach the psychosocial factors affecting food choice and how it may relate to risk for altered perfusion status in primary care patients."

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Specializes in orthopedic/trauma, Informatics, diabetes.
600 for an MSN? OMG. I had more than that for a BSN, and I wasn't being taught to diagnose or prescribe!

We had almost 700 in my ADN program! I know physical therapists are headed toward the doctoral thing, too.

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Specializes in orthopedic/trauma, Informatics, diabetes.

Also, If they are increasing the amount of education for NP to become DNP, what about the PAs?? I work with both and, for the most part, the ANP are easier to work with. I think b/c they have the nursing background.

Another example, we had an NP/CDE that worked with us as a provider for our son. She was GREAT. I found out that CDE is 1000 hours of clinical time. She was more qualified than some of the residents and new grad physicians that were had to endure.

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Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.

PA programs also require about 600 hours minimum.

For comparison, a medical student might do that much and then some in their third year. A freshly minted MD would do that in their first two months of residency.... and then continue for another 46+ months.

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Would having a DNP expand your scope of practice from having a Master's? Would the pay increase? Or is the only change going to be in the level of education that's required to be a NP?

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what a DNP is which is understandable given the lack of clarity employed by the NPTB (nursing powers that be). It is not a doctorate nurse practitioner, it's a doctor of nursing practice and they are two different things. A nurse practitioner who earns a doctorate would most likely earn the DNP, since they are usually employed in clinical practice but there are other areas of clinical practice that fall under that degree.

When you throw in the concept that the PhD in Nursing is supposed to be research-focused and people are complaining there is too much nursing research content in their DNP curriculum you feel you need something for vertigo. It must be very bewildering for someone starting from square one.

Here is how those who are advocating for this degree (American Association of Colleges of Nursing) explain it and the differences between the DNP and the PhD in Nursing.

The Essentials of Doctoral Education for Advanced Nursing Practice

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Will the DNP as minimum for NP persuade all 50 states to allow NPs to practice primary care independently? In many states they can only do this under the direction of a physician, right?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Will the DNP as minimum for NP persuade all 50 states to allow NPs to practice primary care independently? In many states they can only do this under the direction of a physician, right?

APN independence has everything to do with politics and lobbying. It has nothing to do the amount of education or type of degree an APN has. You could have the most prepared NPs with 12 degrees each, but lobbyists are always going to be telling/buying politicians that APNs are not safe without physician supervision. We know this isn't true, but truth and politics are rarely bed fellows.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Would having a DNP expand your scope of practice from having a Master's? Would the pay increase? Or is the only change going to be in the level of education that's required to be a NP?

No and No. The DNP is aligning the degree with the amount of credit hours already in place, and trying to make the profession stronger overall. The DNP/DNAP is supposed to help bring more leaders in EBP to the bedside and hopefully decrease the amount of time it takes to bring research into practice.

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I think it is a valid to ask whether the extra year of school for "research" is truly focused on clinically applicable information? Or is it a year of nursing theory, "leadership," and other filler to charge students for in exchange for credit hours and credential inflation?

For example, Mom to 4's complaint about papers: are these 10-20 page papers useful and applicable or are they more like RN school busy-work drivel?

Useful: "write 20 pages discussing the latest longitudinal findings on heart disease modifiable risk factors and pharmacological management and relate it to key practice goals for best management of a patient in the primary care environment"

Drivel: "write 20 pages discussing how five different nursing theorists would approach the psychosocial factors affecting food choice and how it may relate to risk for altered perfusion status in primary care patients."

I totally agree about the papers. Let them be pertinent to clinical practice. The whole point of my program is to create entry level primary care providers. Writing useful papers and creating power points about anticipatory guidance are very helpful for me to understand concepts and teach them to my patients. While I can utilize the framework of a nursing theorist, I think 1 class would suffice. I had my fill of EBP classes in my BSN! Let the DNP expand clinical skills to make better clinicians.

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