Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot' - page 9

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  1. Visit  ChristaRN profile page
    0
    Since we're no longer in flu season I realize that my comment may be a bit late. I personally have no problem with the flu vaccine being required for me to work. I also realize that some people have to be exempt, especially for severe allergies, not just "it makes me sick". My hospital last flu season made the flu shot mandatory and in the case of people who refused for WHATEVER reason, they had to wear a mask AT ALL TIMES while in the hospital, not just while in a patient room. For those of you who object to the vaccine, regardless of the reason, how would you feel about being required to wear a mask for months every time you worked? Just curious as to some responses.
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  3. Visit  lindy_ profile page
    0
    My workplace is looking at a mandatory flu shot policy for direct care workers for next season. We are in the process of looking at how to enforce it. We think that it is a moral and ethical issue. Our patients are all older and mostly homebound or living in a facility where their only risk of exposure is from the few people they come in contact with. and their healthcare worker should certainly not be their source of exposure. We have also provided free flu shots for their immediate family members for the past several years.
  4. Visit  honeykrown profile page
    0
    It's funny how people say its their right to refuse flu shots and all. Before Nursing school you were required to get all the vaccine (and in a way it is forced). You dont like it done get into the profession, but then you are in it you are refusing something as simple as the flu shot.

    Everything has its benefits and risks but when the benefits out weigh the risk i believe it should be a no brainer
  5. Visit  Seth O Scope profile page
    2
    The way I see it hospitals and schools make sure youve had your vaccines and sometimes you have to get a tetanus booster or some other shots. If thats what they require just do it and keep your mouth shut. Barring allergies I dont see any reason why someone shouldnt get the vaccine other than its a self empowerment issue by saying "you cant tell me what to do". If you dont like the rules just quit believe me the hospital doesnt need you as much as you need them. Put the ego aside and do as requested otherwise be ready to face the consequences. Bottom line is its about the patients and whether the hospital is doing it for the patients safety or to cover themselves from getting sued a rule is a rule and theres no two sides to it. If you have a hard time accepting the fact that your patients health is more important than your personal feeling on an issue youre in the wrong profession.

    And no you cant sue because you wont win. The hospital is not forcing you to get a shot in the sense that they are strapping you to a chair and sticking you with a needle. They make it part of the requirements of employment and if you dont want to listen you will get fired. Just like they can tell you that you cant take care of your patients in a bikini they can tell you that you cant take care of them without the flu shot.
    grownuprosie and Laidback Al like this.
  6. Visit  JamesR profile page
    0
    Quote from MunoRN
    You have the right to refuse a flu vaccine- by not working in healthcare. Unless a vaccine is contraindicated due to a medical issue, you are an irresponsible healthcare worker if you refuse a vaccine and you clearly have little regard for the safety of those you care for. It is absolutely nothing like being forced to take a medication. Medications affect only you. Vaccines affect those you care for. Many hospitalized patients cannot be vaccinated due to immuno-compromise, which is unfortunate because those are the patients who most need to be protected from additional illness. They depend on you to take steps that prevent you from becoming a vector. I don't think that an employer requiring a flu vaccine to be battery, although if you do refuse I do believe you should be charged with assaulting your patients since you are intentionally threatening their safety.

    The Joint Commission is looking at making flu vaccines among direct patient care staff accreditation criteria, more power to 'em.

    What is your reason for refusing?

    So i guess i am still trying to grasp the logic of thinking that if you are vaccinated you will not encounter or carry a certain virus. If i am vaccinated wouldnt i still encounter and carry the virus just the same as someone who has not been vaccinated. A vaccination is just to help me create antibodies so that the virus isnt as powerfull in my own body. It has nothing to do with the patients i see... can someone help me out here? Not sure why it would threaten my patients if I had not been vaccinated?
  7. Visit  Seth O Scope profile page
    0
    Quote from JamesR
    So i guess i am still trying to grasp the logic of thinking that if you are vaccinated you will not encounter or carry a certain virus. If i am vaccinated wouldnt i still encounter and carry the virus just the same as someone who has not been vaccinated. A vaccination is just to help me create antibodies so that the virus isnt as powerfull in my own body. It has nothing to do with the patients i see... can someone help me out here? Not sure why it would threaten my patients if I had not been vaccinated?
    The logic is risk factor. Without vaccine you are more likely to contract and spread the flu where you will be sick for a week plus. Can anyone say for certain that you won't pass it on to your patients for sure? No! But simply put there's a greater risk if you're not vaccinated than if you are. Based on your philosophy why shouldn't people smoke I mean people who never smoked a day in their life still contracted lung cancer. Again the idea is risk factor and if you can't wrap your head around that logic than thinking logically isn't for you.
  8. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    0
    Quote from JamesR
    So i guess i am still trying to grasp the logic of thinking that if you are vaccinated you will not encounter or carry a certain virus. If i am vaccinated wouldnt i still encounter and carry the virus just the same as someone who has not been vaccinated. A vaccination is just to help me create antibodies so that the virus isnt as powerfull in my own body. It has nothing to do with the patients i see... can someone help me out here? Not sure why it would threaten my patients if I had not been vaccinated?
    When you are vaccinated you are still exposed to a virus. But when successfully vaccinated, your body is able to nip an infection in the bud. Unvaccinated, the virus can proliferate exponentially (virus's need the cells of a susceptible living organism to multiply). In the case of the flu in particular, the symptoms the virus causes make you a perfect virus spreading machine; cough, sneezing, runny nose all efficiently spreading the virus's that your body has cultivated. While these symptoms would hopefully prevent you from working, you're still virulent for days before symptoms appear, and we all know there are times when we work when sick.
  9. Visit  PDXPonySN913 profile page
    0
    ...I look forward to my flu shots. I don't want to get sick.

    Isn't the real issue here, nursing shortages? There aren't enough nurses to cover the sick leave shifts. Our healthcare workforce is running on bald tires. An investment must be made for everyone's safety. Those unemployed new grads, need to be hired and trained. Failure to plan for and train the nurses needed today, and in the future - is negligent. As long as there are thousands of U.S. new grads with licenses who can't get jobs, whose fault is it, really, if there are not enough nurses to cover sick days?

    I can see why nurses must have extraodinary levels of accountability, and extrodinary levels of responsibility. I'm all for having people leave hospitals, alive. I cannot see why nurses should be rewarded for all that they do, and all that they sacrifice, with the loss of personal and individaul rights. Take away the nurses right to refuse immunizations, ...What other medical services, proceedures, or medications will become mandatory? If I force a competent patient to go under the needle, isn't that against the law? Why should it be lawful to make nurses submit to activities unlawful for the general public? Once one employer makes it lawful and mandatory -they all will. Free choices will not exist.

    Please, get immunized.... I see no problem with using positive incentives. How about ... three added paid days off, for nurses who get immunized? I'd bet the immunization rates would go up.
  10. Visit  lindy_ profile page
    0
    To those against mandatory flu shots... just curious if you are anti immunizations for children? What about TB testing requirements and measles vaccinations for healthcare providers? I WANT to be fully immunized for MYSELF as well as my patients. A healthy HCW can show very few sx. of the flu but still be contagious to a compromised patient. It seems like an ethical issue to me. I am so surprised that this is an issue.
  11. Visit  Ashley, PICU RN profile page
    1
    Quote from PDXPonySN913
    Isn't the real issue here, nursing shortages? There aren't enough nurses to cover the sick leave shifts. Our healthcare workforce is running on bald tires. An investment must be made for everyone's safety. Those unemployed new grads, need to be hired and trained. Failure to plan for and train the nurses needed today, and in the future - is negligent. As long as there are thousands of U.S. new grads with licenses who can't get jobs, whose fault is it, really, if there are not enough nurses to cover sick days?
    The issue isn't nursing shortages- it's money. It's not that there aren't enough nurses to cover a sick day, it's that the hospitals don't want to pay for the nurse's sick time AND the replacement nurse. So call-ins either are not covered (short staffing) or the nurses are penalized for using sick time so the hospital doesn't have to pay for it. New grads aren;t being hired and trained because it;s more expensive to hire a new grad. Nurses with experience benefit the hospital more. Sure, an investment needs to be made, but no one has the money for or is willing to make that investment right now. Hospitals are businesses too.

    Quote from PDXPonySN913
    I can see why nurses must have extraodinary levels of accountability, and extrodinary levels of responsibility. I'm all for having people leave hospitals, alive. I cannot see why nurses should be rewarded for all that they do, and all that they sacrifice, with the loss of personal and individaul rights. Take away the nurses right to refuse immunizations, ...What other medical services, proceedures, or medications will become mandatory? If I force a competent patient to go under the needle, isn't that against the law? Why should it be lawful to make nurses submit to activities unlawful for the general public?
    You're right that it is illegal to force a patient into a procedure that they have not given consent to. If that's what the hospital was doing, it would also be wrong. They aren't forcing the employee into anything, they are offering a condition of employment. You can say to a patient "You need to take this medication or you're going to get really sick and maybe die." The patient can still say no. They will get sick and maybe die. An employer can say to the employee, "You need to get a flu shot or you will be fired." The employee can still say no. They will be fired.

    As has been stated, a nurse's health not only affects her, but her patients. Who cares if my accountant gets a flu shot? If I have cancer and my white count is in the toilet, I'm not going to see my accountant. I am going to see the nurse who comes to give me my chemo and change my dressings. The same nurse who has been taking care of 6 other patients who might have contagious diseases.
    Laidback Al likes this.
  12. Visit  mcneillmama3 profile page
    3
    It is not completely true-vaccines do affect the person being vaccinated. You can never predict who will get the anaphylactic reaction or who may develop guillain barre syndrome. You may not be allergic to latex one day, but have a hypersensitivity reaction the next. I also know of a woman who lost her hearing from a flu vaccine. It is what we call idiosyncratic reactions. No one know the how or why. It is also bad medical science. I was 49 years old when the H1N1 virus reared it ugly head. Fortunately, I worked as a contract nurse for a company who runs flu clinics and even we were not forced to take shot. I wasn't about to take the H1N1 vaccine because at my age, I know I was exposed to the virus probably back in the 1960s when that epidemic went around. Thus based on science, I already have immunities to that strain for the rest of my life. Why would I want more put in to me? Now I had no choice but to take the H1N1 in 2010 because it was mixed with the seasonal flu vaccine and no one has immunities to the new seasonal flu strains that go around each and every year. Forcing a nurse to take a vaccine goes against the moral and ethical principle of autonomy. Plus what were we taught in Nursing 101? What is single MOST effective method of preventing the spread of infections? It isn't vaccines, it's plain and simple good hand washing.
  13. Visit  mcneillmama3 profile page
    3
    Another thought: I don't think the reason we are mandated to take a flu vaccine is because our employers care about our welfare. If they cared about our welfare we would all be getting mandatory rest breaks, bathroom breaks, and uninterrupted meal breaks. Now that would be a first, wouldn't it? I have worked many a 12 hour shift, that turned in to a 13-14 hour shift without so much as a pee break because of the acuity of the patients and one new admission right after the other.
  14. Visit  mcneillmama3 profile page
    0
    One last thought-there will never be a vaccine for the common cold. There were numerous times I HAD to report to work on a coronary intensive care unit with a cold and ear infections. Patients can catch those illnesses from us too. Again it goes back to hand washing and wearing PPE when providing care for our patients.


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