Jehovah's Witness nurses in the critical care unit?

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Hello

This is my first time posting a thread. I was just wondering if anyone is or knows of a Jehovah's Witness nurse who works in a critical care unit. Also if you dont mind can you tell me at which hospital? The reason I am asking is that I am also one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I just passed my NCLEX. Yay :yeah: I really want to work in the critical care unit, specifically the CCU. However, when I explained to the supervisor of the ICU/CCU about the issue with the blood transfusion, she said she couldnt hire me on to the critical care unit. Yes, this hospital is offering critical care positions to new grads. I was really devastated because i wanted to really work in the CCU. :crying2: So I was wondering if it's the same for other hospitals. I explained to the supervisor that I am willing to care for the patient who is receiving the blood transfusion, but that I would need a second nurse(most likely the nurse who would be verifying the blood with me) to spike the blood and press the start button. I do understand why the critical care environment may not want to have a nurse who cannot initiate the blood transfusion. So I was just wondering if I do not have a chance at all in a critical care unit. For now I am orienting in the med-surg floor and I still have lingering feelings for the critical care unit. :sniff:

Thank You

ArtClassRN is right-- I am so tired of the "But it is God's WILL".....directly quoted from some verse or two in the middle of some other verse....subject to perception....."The Bible says so" is another ad nauseum debate....Bible says a whole lot that more than one doesn't follow to a "T"

If we are all going to pick and choose who we will take care of (after all, we are not doing this to ourselves) then no one would take care of nearly anyone.

MY religious beliefs state I would take a blood transfusion. Nurses need to keep theirs out of it. I believe a woman (or man) has a choice with what to do with their own body. Nurses do not have that choice over me. Or one would not be my nurse, one would be my health care proxy.

In other words I am the the one going to hell. The nurse is not based on a start button or a pill. Or one would take the direct route to hades over wearing pants, cutting ones hair, wearing makeup and heck even WORKING....as it is also stated in the Good Book that one needs to submit to husband, prepare a lovely home......I could go on....however, point made.

I'll be right there with you. To the topic.. It makes no sense for someone who will encounter things they are not comfortable with doing to work in an environment they KNOW they will encounter it. It's like a right to life nurse working in an abortion clinic..

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"If their conscience allows" is another misleading statement.

Akin to a Jewish CNA declining to feeding non-kosher food to a non- Jewish patient. Well within their scope, but some sort of passive-agressive interpretation taken to the extreme...to patients who do not believe as the caretaker does.

The workplace is not the place to attempt to convert souls. Especially when it involves caring for a patient in the immediate.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
This isn't a situation where religious freedom and non-discrimination applies administering blood is not only not forbidden by the JW church, the JW church has clarified specifically that it's followers are allowed at least under JW doctrine to administer blood. A JW refusing to administer blood has no religious basis for this, instead this is a situation where a Nurse is substituting their conscious for the patient's. If it were a matter of religious objection, then one could argue the Nurse should just avoid situations where they have to hang blood, but if it's a matter of being unable to put the patient's conscious above yours, that's not something that can be avoided in Nursing, it is a part of all Nursing and it's working as a Nursing in general that needs to be avoided.[/quote'] I would like to see where JW's have made a statement about this, I've certainly never seen it, and I am a very much active JW. You are correct that some JWs do choose to administer. Some, however, do not and it is because of their religious beliefs that they decide not too, so please explain to me how religious discrimination doesn't apply???

Also, a JW isn't substituting the patients conscious for theirs. That would be if the JW was saying in not going to administer this blood because I don't accept it, so this patient shouldn't either. JWs don't question a persons right to accept or deny blood, they just prefer not to administer it. There is no patronizing or an attempt at religious conversion involved.

So how they (we) are substituting patients conscious, I don't understand.

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I don't think "religious discrimination" applies to this situation. If administering a blood transfusion is against one's religion, then one shouldn't get a job where one is expected to do so on a regular basis. I think it's that simple.

I have a deep personal conviction that capital punishment is wrong. Would it make sense for me to get a job as a corrections officer on death row?

What if a female Muslim CNA said she couldn't provide direct care to male patients because it went against her religious modesty? Should employers accomadate that?

I believe the law says employers are expected to make reasonable accomidation. Taking a job that has fundamental tasks that are against your personal beliefs seems to go against common sense.

With all of that said, if all the OP is requesting is for another nurse to physically spike the blood and push "start" for her, then I guess that's not really asking too much. After all, another RN has to be there anyways, right?

I guess what puzzles me is: why the distinction? If your belifs are such that spiking a bag of blood is such an unthinkable act, why are you then okay with monitoring/supervising the transfusion? That doesn't make sense to me.

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As far as reasonable accommodations go....on the level 1 trauma SICU I used to work at, we would receive as many as 15-20 GSW patients in our ER a night at times. Meaning they all pretty much had to go to the SICU where blood product administration was as routine as handing out pain meds.

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As far as reasonable accommodations go....on the level 1 trauma SICU I used to work at, we would receive as many as 15-20 GSW patients in our ER a night at times. Meaning they all pretty much had to go to the SICU where blood product administration was as routine as handing out pain meds.

Ah, but the question becomes that in the middle of all of this--where one patient is just as critical as another, is it within a patient safety realm to have a nurse say "I will not do xyz" when it comes to blood? This is, in my opinion, how critical care patients become MORE critical. Delays in treatment due to the nurses belief system.

But this is just me. And I am an LPN. Who interestingly can't do blood tranfusions. Hence why I would not seek (nor be hired) for critical care nursing. Although, if accommodations are made, a CCU can hire an LPN (at less money) to monitor blood. However, not many CCU's are doing that.....

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Specializes in Emergency, ICU.
I would like to see where JW's have made a statement about this, I've certainly never seen it, and I am a very much active JW. You are correct that some JWs do choose to administer. Some, however, do not and it is because of their religious beliefs that they decide not too, so please explain to me how religious discrimination doesn't apply??? Also, a JW isn't substituting the patients conscious for theirs. That would be if the JW was saying in not going to administer this blood because I don't accept it, so this patient shouldn't either. JWs don't question a persons right to accept or deny blood, they just prefer not to administer it. There is no patronizing or an attempt at religious conversion involved. So how they (we) are substituting patients conscious, I don't understand.

First of all, I believe you mean CONSCIENCE. Here is a good article that explains the difference http://www.dailywritingtips.com/conscience-vs-conscious/

Secondly, if you as a JW prefer to not give blood and you work in a setting where patients get blood routinely, then yes, you are making a decision that affects others based on your religion. That is wrong and against the patient's beliefs.

I like the example given by another poster because it is the same thing: I am Jewish and therefore, don't eat or use products derived from pork including certain medications. I don't withhold medications that are not kosher from people because I wouldn't take them. That would be pretentious and paternalistic of me -- deciding that I know better than others. It does not make sense.

So, I stand by my original response: if you will not perform the duties of a job, don't apply. Simple.

If you do and you end up working in the ICU next to me and you ask me every 15 min to come spike your bags and press go for you, I will refuse and your patient's outcome will be on you.

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I would like to see where JW's have made a statement about this, I've certainly never seen it, and I am a very much active JW. You are correct that some JWs do choose to administer. Some, however, do not and it is because of their religious beliefs that they decide not too, so please explain to me how religious discrimination doesn't apply???

Also, a JW isn't substituting the patients conscious for theirs. That would be if the JW was saying in not going to administer this blood because I don't accept it, so this patient shouldn't either. JWs don't question a persons right to accept or deny blood, they just prefer not to administer it. There is no patronizing or an attempt at religious conversion involved.

So how they (we) are substituting patients conscious, I don't understand.

If, as you say, it's OK to administer blood to patients under your religion, then choosing NOT to administer blood is a personal choice, not a religious requirement. And that makes "religious discrimination" not applicable.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I would like to see where JW's have made a statement about this, I've certainly never seen it, and I am a very much active JW. You are correct that some JWs do choose to administer. Some, however, do not and it is because of their religious beliefs that they decide not too, so please explain to me how religious discrimination doesn't apply???

Also, a JW isn't substituting the patients conscious for theirs. That would be if the JW was saying in not going to administer this blood because I don't accept it, so this patient shouldn't either. JWs don't question a persons right to accept or deny blood, they just prefer not to administer it. There is no patronizing or an attempt at religious conversion involved.

So how they (we) are substituting patients conscious, I don't understand.

Watchtower 11/15/1964 pages 682-683 Employment and Your Conscience

Christians in the medical profession are individually responsible for employment decisions. They must bear the consequences of decisions made, in keeping with the principle at Galatians 6:5. Some doctors who are Jehovah’s witnesses have administered blood transfusions to persons of the world upon request. However, they do not do so in the case of one of Jehovah’s dedicated witnesses. In harmony with Deuteronomy 14:21, the administering of blood upon request to worldly persons is left to the Christian doctor’s own conscience. This is similar to the situation facing a Christian butcher or grocer who must decide whether he can conscientiously sell blood sausage to a worldly person.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.

I apologize. I did mean conscience, in my passionate typing I neglected to change that. However it may seem I do know he difference, I would that people would know I knew the difference seeing as I have a nursing degree. I will look up that watchtower reference as I've never seen any watchtower have anywhere close to 600 pages.

I will rest my case. I can recognize a hopeless cause when I see one. In closing, there are many JW nurses working in critical care and surgical areas that have no problems, me included, and as I said I am a CVICU nurse and take Care of fresh CABG pts on careful at basis. I informed my employer of my beliefs, I don't mind having to administer, as it's the patients choice. However I told the hiring committee that doesn't mean I just want to hump in every BT that rolls across our unit.

I got offered my job not long after my interview, too which my employer cited the EEOC and their info as to ensure that my religious preferences would be respected.

Maybe I am just fortunate and blessed that I don't have to work on a unit where my beliefs would cause an issue between my co-workers/patients. I love going to work, my co-workers are so supportive, both spiritually and professionally, and we all work well together. I thank my God Jehovah for the blessing of having not only a job, but one I love and for the opportunity to be a nurse. It's because of my religion that I try to do my best at my job.

Everyone have a great work week! :)

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When a Jehovah's witness is a patient, they expect the medical personell go against their own beliefs (i.e. save the patient at all costs) and not to administer blood. In the other hand, when they themselves are the medical personell, they expect not to go against their beliefs and so not to administer blood. So it all comes down to fundamentalism, not the specific religion. JW, Mormon, radical islamist, it doesn't matter. If your religion comes before other people's life, death and best interests, then my opinion is also that ICU is not the place for you. In other words, as a patient, I would find it absolutely unacceptable to be in an ICU where my health and medical procedures depend on the personell's religious beliefs in any way, big or small.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
When a Jehovah's witness is a patient, they expect the medical personell go against their own beliefs (i.e. save the patient at all costs) and not to administer blood. In the other hand, when they themselves are the medical personell, they expect not to go against their beliefs and so not to administer blood. So it all comes down to fundamentalism, not the specific religion. JW, Mormon, radical islamist, it doesn't matter. If your religion comes before other people's life, death and best interests, then my opinion is also that ICU is not the place for you. In other words, as a patient, I would find it absolutely unacceptable to be in an ICU where my health and medical procedures depend on the personell's religious beliefs in any way, big or small.

Actually, not all (and probably most) medical personnel do not believe in saving alll patients at all costs. Sometimes, what is best for the patient (and their right to chose) is to let them pass on- that's what living wills, advanced directives, and DNRs help accomplish- meeting the patient's wishes. Also, please don't stereotype all nurses who follow a particular religion. There are actually some JW who will hang blood- it is the patient's choice to make, and that is how they view it.

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