Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
Regarding VAERS.. Am I correct in thinking that pretty much anyone can report pretty much anything? And that it’s not recommended that the general public use the information and attempt to analyze the reports that can be entered without being verified and without cause and effect having been established?
I’m European. I’ve been following the AstraZeneca vaccine closely. Why are 30-40% of Americans (according to you) concerned about this? Is the AstraZeneca vaccine evenapproved or EUA in the U.S.?? Perhaps worry less.......
Do you think that the data will ever be ”sufficiently convincing” to you? From the hundreds of posts you’ve written on the topic I suspect that you’ll never get a Covid vaccine. But I’d be happy for you to prove me wrong ?
Regarding VAERS.. Am I correct in thinking that pretty much anyone can report pretty much anything? And that it’s not recommended that the general public use the information and attempt to analyze the reports that can be entered without being verified and without cause and effect having been established?
I’m European. I’ve been following the AstraZeneca vaccine closely. Why are 30-40% of Americans (according to you) concerned about this? Is the AstraZeneca vaccine evenapproved or EUA in the U.S.?? Perhaps worry less.......
Do you think that the data will ever be ”sufficiently convincing” to you? From the hundreds of posts you’ve written on the topic I suspect that you’ll never get a Covid vaccine. But I’d be happy for you to prove me wrong ?
The AstraZenica vaccine is probably most similar to the J and J vaccine. The VAERS database is a legally mandated reporting database for adverse reactions to vaccines in the United States. The number of VAERS reports for Covid vaccines dwarfs all other vaccine reactions combined for the past several years (despite a large percentage of the population getting the influenza vaccine each year). I was convinced by the data (and my employers mandate that I either get a influenza shot or wear a mask) to take the influenza vaccine each and every year for more than a decade. I predict that of the Americans who have still not vaccinated it will be virtually impossible to move this number more than another 10% higher.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, joyflnoyz said:
My political ( leftist, rightist or in betweenist) beliefs have NOTHING to do with my health care decisions. I look at the information and make my decision. It really does not matter; how can you FORCE someone to have something injected into his/her body if they don't want it for ( insert reason here)
Who is forcing you to get vaccinated? Hyperbole is a terrible defense and makes your position appear more emotional than rational.
Who is forcing you to get vaccinated? Hyperbole is a terrible defense and makes your position appear more emotional than rational.
Well Gov. Brown in Oregon is talking about a "vaccine passport" that would force businesses to either mandate masks or show that people who are there have been vaccinated. Many hospitals are moving in the direction of "forced vaccination". Certainly, while this vaccine remains authorized under "emergency use" this does not seem appropriate when even the Special Forces of the United States Military on deployment cannot be forced (due to the emergency use provision) to force citizens under penalty of losing their jobs. Especially, given that they cannot sue or even recover under the Vaccine injury compensation fund that was created when VAERS became active.
Regarding VAERS.. Am I correct in thinking that pretty much anyone can report pretty much anything? And that it’s not recommended that the general public use the information and attempt to analyze the reports that can be entered without being verified and without cause and effect having been established?
I’m European. I’ve been following the AstraZeneca vaccine closely. Why are 30-40% of Americans (according to you) concerned about this? Is the AstraZeneca vaccine evenapproved or EUA in the U.S.?? Perhaps worry less.......
Do you think that the data will ever be ”sufficiently convincing” to you? From the hundreds of posts you’ve written on the topic I suspect that you’ll never get a Covid vaccine. But I’d be happy for you to prove me wrong ?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
6 hours ago, myoglobin said:
Well Gov. Brown in Oregon is talking about a "vaccine passport" that would force businesses to either mandate masks or show that people who are there have been vaccinated. Many hospitals are moving in the direction of "forced vaccination". Certainly, while this vaccine remains authorized under "emergency use" this does not seem appropriate when even the Special Forces of the United States Military on deployment cannot be forced (due to the emergency use provision) to force citizens under penalty of losing their jobs. Especially, given that they cannot sue or even recover under the Vaccine injury compensation fund that was created when VAERS became active.
"Forced vaccination"
Fear based hyperbole reveals your limited understanding of these topics.
If "we" are correct then the long term ramifications of a rushed vaccine will likely play themselves out over the months and years to come.
Re-read this statement from that article:
"The history of vaccines shows that delayed effects from vaccination can occur. But when they do, these effects tend to happen within two months of vaccination."
With hundreds of millions of people now vaccinated, and the first group now six months past their first shots, we should have seen most of the possible side effects of this vaccine. If you know of vaccines whose effects don't show up for years, please link to the data.
No, it does NOT support the thesis that infection is superior to vaccination. Infected + vaccination is not the same as infected and NOT vaccinated. From your own link:
"It tells me that even if you got infected, it doesn’t mean that you have a super immune response,” Dr. Ellebedy said. The findings reinforce the idea that people who have recovered from Covid-19 should be vaccinated, he said."
That is the OPPOSITE of what you are claiming!
Also from same article:
"A year after infection, neutralizing activity in the participants who had not been vaccinated was lower against all forms of the virus, with the greatest loss seen against the variant first identified in South Africa."
I don't know if you misunderstood what you read or if you are being deliberately obtuse-and for what reason.
My political ( leftist, rightist or in betweenist) beliefs have NOTHING to do with my health care decisions. I look at the information and make my decision. It really does not matter; how can you FORCE someone to have something injected into his/her body if they don't want it for ( insert reason here)
The answer to your question is you can't. No competent individual in the US can be "forced" to get a vaccine or any other treatment. Requiring proof of vaccination as a condition of employment is NOT the same thing as "forcing" the employee to be vaccinated without their consent. The choice always ALWAYS lies with the employee or with the parent of the public school child or the person seeking to travel, etc.
The answer to your question is you can't. No competent individual in the US can be "forced" to get a vaccine or any other treatment. Requiring proof of vaccination as a condition of employment is NOT the same thing as "forcing" the employee to be vaccinated without their consent. The choice always ALWAYS lies with the employee or with the parent of the public school child or the person seeking to travel, etc.
IF a society exists where to "buy, sell or earn a living" requires something that is the equivalent of "forcing". If I require you to "bow before an Idol" at the point of a gun you of course have a choice you could choose to die as the faithful of the past did for many thousands of years or you could bow. From the perspective of the oppressors the "victims" in that scenario were given a "choice". When the Spanish came to the new world they gave the indigenous people a "choice" and it was to "convert or die" (or frankly to convert, be abused and die anyway). We have different perspectives on what constitutes a choice.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
32 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
IF a society exists where to "buy, sell or earn a living" requires something that is the equivalent of "forcing". If I require you to "bow before an Idol" at the point of a gun you of course have a choice you could choose to die as the faithful of the past did for many thousands of years or you could bow. From the perspective of the oppressors the "victims" in that scenario were given a "choice". When the Spanish came to the new world they gave the indigenous people a "choice" and it was to "convert or die" (or frankly to convert, be abused and die anyway). We have different perspectives on what constitutes a choice.
Again with the hyperbole ... it's almost as if that's all you have is emotional exaggeration of fears and not science or facts.
Again with the hyperbole ... it's almost as if that's all you have is emotional exaggeration of fears and not science or facts.
No, it is a clarification that requiring vaccine passports should they come to pass would amount to "economic warfare" against those of us who choose not to use a vaccine that not even the armed forces of the United States on active duty can be forced to take. A different "modern" example would be Communist China where you can "choose" to be Falun Gong but if you "exercise" that choice at the least you will find yourself excluded from jobs, education, and public transport, and many who "choose" to practice this peaceful religion find themselves in concentration camps with their organs harvested for the elites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China . This is not "hyperbole" but an illustration of what can occur when basic human rights such as the ability to choose which medical treatments or vaccines that we partake of is infringed upon. We will not go quietly in the night of totalitarian rule.
You say that I will not follow the Science but I allege that what you call "science" is often little more than "politically correct perspectives". Consider that even posting on facebook and Twitter a few months ago that Covid 19 came from the Wuhan lab was enough to get you banned from facebook and Twitter (or at least "shadow banned". Now that same perspective is more "mainstream" and is deemed more "scientific" despite most of the evidence having been obvious for anyone to see (who cared to look) for over a year https://www.city-journal.org/on-covid-19-origins-elites-followed-politics-not-science?wallit_nosession=1 .
macawake, MSN
2,141 Posts
Regarding VAERS.. Am I correct in thinking that pretty much anyone can report pretty much anything? And that it’s not recommended that the general public use the information and attempt to analyze the reports that can be entered without being verified and without cause and effect having been established?
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/03/vaers-governments-vaccine-safety-database-critical/
I’m European. I’ve been following the AstraZeneca vaccine closely. Why are 30-40% of Americans (according to you) concerned about this? Is the AstraZeneca vaccine even approved or EUA in the U.S.?? Perhaps worry less.......
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood
Do you think that the data will ever be ”sufficiently convincing” to you? From the hundreds of posts you’ve written on the topic I suspect that you’ll never get a Covid vaccine. But I’d be happy for you to prove me wrong ?