Wrong for any school to charge $90,000 for the pre-nclex one year curriculum

Asherah, BSN, RN · Feb 18, 2008

Or worse! Waiting to re-apply the following year when they could be matriculating so much sooner at a commun. college or local BSN and then apply later to ANY master's program, including Columbia, Yale and Duke and have a much easier time getting in at that point. Argh!! It just bugs me.....

Unless you live in Southern California, as I do, where 99% of all CCs are lottery-based, Cal State Universities are impacted and some folks wait 2-3 years before a random number generator picks your name to begin an ADN or BSN program. My perspective of this situation is that is 2-3 years of lost work experience and/or income.

You may not be aware of much grant/scholarship money some of these candidates receive, and that changes the picture a bit. There are several different routes to achieve licensure, and they are suited to individuals with different goals or timeframes with which they wish to achieve them.

As I will be starting a 2-year BSN program at Johns Hopkins in the fall, I have thoroughly assessed the financial responsibility I will be undertaking and believe the experience to be personally valuable to me. I do however understand that my situation is not suited to or desired by everyone pursuing nursing.

Miss Mab · Feb 18, 2008

Yes, Asherah, I have followed your quest to become a nurse on the student forums. Your response is exactly why I haven't posted my thoughts over there. I had thought about it, with the caveat of 'take it for what it's worth' advice but I feared knee jerk reactions from some so invested in their pursuit that to inject reason or a differing perspective would immediately be dismissed.

Oh well.

I am also from California so I am well aware of the difficulties to be found when seeking nursing school admission. I myself left the state and completed a rather expensive ABSN program so I am not immune to the hardships this path can present. perhaps this might be a reason to accept input from someone who has 'been there' so to speak.

Look, I'm not knocking your, or anyone else's, choices. It's your $$$, do with it what you will. I simply stand with what I originally said, which is that it breaks my heart to read all of these eager-to-be RN's (or really, eager-to-be- NP's, I don't know how many actually want the 'nurse' part but that's a whole other issue I won't begin to address here) putting all of their efforts, hopes and dreams on a specific few programs that happen to charge an exorbitant amount of money that, very likely, in no way offer anywhere near an equal return on that investment in their future careers.

I am also aware of the various financial aid packages out there. Still not a deal in my opinion.I know my view is colored by the reality of nursing and my sadness for those students who statistically will leave the profession within the first few years. Again, just my opinion as a working second degree nurse.

FWIW, since the majority of the students I'm reading obviously have no issues with moving for their schooling, I would suggest that they simply apply to Kansas, MI, MS, or any other state school or any private school out there for that matter. Out of state tuition for an ABSN is still cheaper......I know it's hard to believe but there is NO appreciation in this field, from hiring managers to docs to anyone else, for where you received your undergrad nursing degree. But again, this is a 'you don't know what you don't know,' kind of thing.

Anyway, this is cognitive dissonance at it best so I will leave it at that. I certainly wish no ill outcome for anyone. I just wish some folks could view the bigger picture at play here.

Thank you, though, for providing an excellent example of why my first instincts were correct! :))

jjjoy, LPN · Feb 18, 2008

those students who statistically will leave the profession within the first few years... too true!
fwiw, since the majority of the students i'm reading obviously have no issues with moving for their schooling, i would suggest that they simply apply to kansas, mi, ms, or any other state school or any private school out there for that matter. out of state tuition for an absn is still cheaper......
very good advice! any adn/bsn program out there that doesn't have a waiting list should consider marketing to potential students in areas with impacted schools, even if it's on the other coast!
i know it's hard to believe but there is no appreciation in this field, from hiring managers to docs to anyone else, for where you received your undergrad nursing degree.

very true, again!

Kensington · Feb 18, 2008

Miss Mab,

I think that yes, it is terrible that those of us who want a second-career in nursing have to do it at a high expense (although I am not spending $90,000 for the first year at Yale - not even close!). I wish that my education was as cheap as chips, and I am fearful of all the student loans. That is a sort of given, and many of us feel that way.

However, not only do I echo Asherah's comments, but I have to add my own, which is this: I want a high quality education from top-notch PhD professors in a stimulating environment. Also, I want to further be simulated by the quality of my fellow classmates' backgrounds. From my experience at a few community college open houses, I would have received none of the above. I'm absolutely sure that is not true of EVERY community college, but it was my individual experience. For me, I'm not getting this pricey, overrated, say what you may education for "them", I'm getting it for me. I want to go to Yale, or Georgetown, or Duke. I want to have opportunities outside of the nursing school to explore other courses, and to have access to international community health projects. Finally, I want to be a professor in the future, and as they say, "you can only teach at an institution at the same level or lower than your own".

That being said, we are an eager group. It's painful waiting years and years to try and get into a program that would be much cheaper, and I agree that in some cases we make poor choices because of our angst. I know I'm doing it for the right reason, and so I'll just trust that my fellow Yale/Columbia/JHU admits are doing the same.

Editorial Team / Admin · Feb 18, 2008

The posts above moved to single thread so this discussion can continue w/o being off-topic of previous thread.

jjjoy, LPN · Feb 19, 2008

A good point was made in regard to the accessibility of elective coursework and other opportunities that other schools may not have. However, I can't imagine that accelerated programs leave any room or time for such extras. So that's something to consider if that's a main reason for waiting & paying to go to a top tier school. One might consider getting a BSN elsewhere and then applying for a graduate program at the desired school.

But if one is already accepted to such a program, it will be a quick route & they don't have to worry about being accepted to the desired grad school after finishing their BSN.

And I could see how the caliber of student colleagues attracted to & accepted to such programs would be appealing to some. Though I wouldn't hold my breath on the quality of nursing instruction. I went to a big name school and I can't say the instruction was particularly winning. Yes, the profs all had published research but that didn't make them strong clinical instructors or good at teaching the core nursing courses.

A big question about these programs is how prepared will graduates be to function as RNs? But, ah, it would seem that such programs aren't really preparing students to work as RNs. They are rushing them through the RN coursework so that they can be qualified for NP studies.

I'm curious how such NP graduates fare. The programs that are very competitive will likely show good results because they can pick those students who already show extra motivation and high acheivement. But in such a short period with so much to cover it's hard to imagine the education itself is superior to other programs.

Still, with such quick programs, maybe they are able to bypass much of the inanities of nursing education (endless care plans, nursing diagnosis, and the like). I'd also like to hear accelerated graduate impressions of nursing education in regard to such things.

Asherah, BSN, RN · Feb 19, 2008

Yes, Asherah, I have followed your quest to become a nurse on the student forums. Your response is exactly why I haven't posted my thoughts over there. I had thought about it, with the caveat of 'take it for what it's worth' advice but I feared knee jerk reactions from some so invested in their pursuit that to inject reason or a differing perspective would immediately be dismissed.
Thank you, though, for providing an excellent example of why my first instincts were correct! :))

In my opinion, I was not entirely dismissing your post, however outlining my point of view of why I disagree...far from kneejerk, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't trying to be insulting with the above comments which outline the fact that I and many others must indeed be unreasonable to pursue these routes.

I believe that all of us at AllNurses benefit from such discourse and would sincerely encourage you to share your opinion on the Graduate Student Nurse Forum. Perhaps you will influence someone, who knows?

We all go forward on this path, and of course we are human and we do not always make the correct choices, but we can only make educated choices based on the information we have.

I'm truly sorry you felt unprepared exiting your ABSN program and that you did not get the most bang for your buck, but please believe that your experience is not demonstrative of everyone elses.

Kensington · Feb 19, 2008

Another thing to mention -- my program requires me to work before going straight into the MSN portion (or working while taking it), so I feel that I will have pretty decent experience once I finally graduate as an NP. Also, because the program is accelerated, I will start earning a solid income quicker than if I were to go a less accelerated route (community college to RN-BSN to MSN program). So, I think it will make up for some of the higher cost of the program.

Anyway, I feel that we are all just doing the best we can, and making the choice that is right for each of us now! :)

Asherah, BSN, RN · Feb 19, 2008

Kens,

So you've definitely decided on Yale, then? If so, congrats, I'm excited for the both of us! Do they have an Accepted Students day or a meet and greet?

elkpark · Feb 19, 2008

I don't really see why it's "wrong" for some schools to offer different options for entering nursing that cost more or less than some other options. Some people choose to buy a Ford Escort, and some people feel it's worth the extra money to buy a Mercedes or Jaguar. You could argue that the fact that either car will get you where you're going means that they're "equal," or you could discuss at length differences that make the Benz or Jag "better" than the Ford. As I see it, people make their own decisions, for their own reasons, about what car they want to buy, and it's nice that we all have a wide selection from which to choose. :) I don't think anyone would argue that people shouldn't be "allowed" to offer expensive luxury cars for sale because economy cars will get you where you're going just as well ...

I see it the same way with schools. Isn't it great that there are so many options out there?? :) Personally, I chose to take my MSN from an Ivy League university (as an experienced RN, not a direct-entry student) -- sure, there are lots of schools where I could have gotten an MSN a lot cheaper (and with a lot less effort!!!!), but I shopped around and made the choice that I was most comfortable with (and, nearly 15 years later, I'm still happy with my choice). Other people make a different choice, and I certainly don't think badly of them for making a different choice than I did.

There must be plenty of demand for the expensive direct-entry programs, or the schools wouldn't continue to offer them. Now, I have plenty of problems with the basic concept of the direct-entry MSN programs, but I'm not concerned that schools are ripping off or "misleading" applicants -- everyone applying for nursing programs (esp. the accelerated or direct-entry programs) is an adult, and presumably capable of making informed decisions for her/himself. Choice is good!

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 19, 2008

I agree with elkpark on this one. Choice is good. As long as the school is providing the education it promises to deliver, I am fine with it.

Now .... I have a BIG problem with schools that don't provide a good education. But that's a separate issue. I know a lot of lousy schools at all price levels -- both expensive and cheap.