I have been DYING to write this in the student section with all of the Duke/Columbia/Yale etc. students who are anxious and fretting over their acceptance chances...
I think it is absolutely and one hundred percent wrong for any school to charge $90,000 for the pre-nclex one year curriculum. Wait, scratch that, I think it is heinously wrong for these students to be led to believe that this is necessary. This is a common figure for the majority of the MEPN programs which it sounds as though the OP is talking about.
I guess I feel bad because I was once in their position....looking to go back for a second degree in nursing and I just assumed that, like any undergrad program, the "better" your school the better your job prospects were. So I cpmletely unserstand the motivation of choosing these "name" schools.
But we all know that in nursing this is just so completely unnecessary! ABC community college graduate is just as "valued" as an RN from Yale. In fact, right or wrong, many hospital peers(at all levels) may actually question your 'wisdom' of completing such a program at an expense that just seems foolish.
Anyway, I know I'm babbling and not being coherent this AM but it just breaks my heart to read these folks struggles and know that they are being, if not misled, certainly steered in a very specific direction that is to their financial detriment for absolutely zero reason....
Or worse! Waiting to re-apply the following year when they could be matriculating so much sooner at a commun. college or local BSN and then apply later to ANY master's program, including Columbia, Yale and Duke and have a much easier time getting in at that point. Argh!! It just bugs me.....
When I got the sticker price for the Columbia, I fell out of my chair, got up and called the financial aid office and then fell down again...
There are days when I feel completely duped - and other days when I can't help but realize how far I have come (I was working at Trader Joe's in 2005, now I'm a few semesters from an MSN/ANP while working as an onc RN in a top rated hospital).
Worth it? I can't say. All those powerpoint presentations could be viewed online and tests taken as well without the two cents of an NP at the lecture hall, right? Longer clinical hours might have been nice. More care plans...I don't know. You learn it all on the job for the most part. Seriously.
The money spent is an investment - it ought to pay off. I have met NPs who started off as volunteers in high school, became LPN and then RN and then eventually went back for a MSN - they do the same job as the accelerated grads. At my age and time in life, I wasn't going to get on the waiting list for the Peralta District nursing programs - I'm almost done. Is it a quality education? I don't know. The curriculum builds in master's level courses during the pre-NCLEX coursework, so the price is not cut and dried as Miss Mab couches it - but there is no arguing that the price is steep - and Bush will likely cut reimbursement programs for working in underserved areas, right?
I'm happy I don't work in an office or in retail anymore. Sallie Mae will be getting checks from me for years to come - I'm in bed with her...like it or not. Hopefully we will be well trained and take good care of people and change health care for the better, and be happy in how we spend our days, even if we are slightly disgruntled about how we spend our money ("I owe, I owe..." said the little dwarves)...:oornt:
To Miss Mab, thank you for your insightful opinion (you seem to have done a lot of research on ABSN programs) and congrats on your freebie degree.
I will be starting the Columbia University ETP program in the summer, and since it has been continually mentioned, I would like to clarify a few things.
The figure that keeps being referred to in these posts ("90,000 ... 86 - 93,000") is a total cost estimate based on many, many factors, one of which is the ridiculous HIGH cost of living in NYC. If you take out room/board, personal expense budget, transportation budget, health insurance (if you already have it) and then add the $22k Columbia scholarship, you will get a figure of $45k for the ETP year.
The $86-93k figure is pretty skewed since it does include a year of living off-campus in NYC. $45k is still expensive, no doubt, but it is a little more than half of $93k. I know that it was already mentioned before that these expenses were included, but I thought a breakdown would give a better idea, especially since the living expenses are mostly to blame.
Also, let's not forget that these institutions (Yale, JHU, Columbia, etc) still require competitive applicants with, at the least, excellent GPA and GRE scores. To say that these universities are "not worth it" at ANY price is strictly an opinion.
And while it may be heavily geographical, I have spoken to several nurse practitioners and physicians who recognize "big name" institutions. I think this is really dependent on if your coworkers are RNs or physicians and APNs, to be quite honest.
I think the fact that these institutions ARE recognized as "big name" gives a good indication that RNs who purposely fail to take note are protecting their own ego.
Well, that's all I have - good luck to us fools at Ivy Leagues - here's to our debt! :cheers:
P.S. I also wanted to clarify that both JHU and Columbia also confer the BSN after the first year.
to miss mab, thank you for your insightful opinion (you seem to have done a lot of research on absn programs) and congrats on your freebie degree.
thank you. i would assume you did plenty of research prior to pursuing an additional degree as well. unclear why the snide take. my due diligence or my scholarship? no matter...
i will be starting the columbia university etp program in the summer
congrats on your acceptance
the figure that keeps being referred to in these posts ("90,000 ... 86 - 93,000") is a total cost estimate based on many, many factors, one of which is the ridiculous high cost of living in nyc. if you take out room/board, personal expense budget, transportation budget, health insurance cool trick if you can do it and probably easier at 22 then 32, huh?
then add the $22k columbia scholarship, you will get a figure of $45k for the etp year.
the $86-93k figure is pretty skewed since it does include a year of living off-campus in nyc. $45k is still expensive, no doubt, but it is a little more than half of $93k. i know that it was already mentioned before that these expenses were included
so then $67k, the amount you posted that columbia financial aid informed students would be needed in private loans for the pre-nclex year, would be a little more than 2/3?
to say that these universities are "not worth it" at any price is strictly an opinion.
gee, i'm thinking we already covered that somewhere. multiple times. now, where could that be? hint: look up! look up!
and while it may be heavily geographical, i have spoken to several nurse practitioners and physicians who recognize "big name" institutions. i think this is really dependent on if your coworkers are rns or physicians and apns, to be quite honest.
as enrollment in any mepn or absn program is predicated on the completion of a prior degree, and presumably a little bit of life and professional experience, i find that statement both patronizing and incredibly ignorant.
i suppose as you have not yet completed even your first college degree, and likely won't have time to gain much life or professional experience in the few days you'll have between graduation and when nursing school starts, your condescending view of your future healthcare partners can be most generously chalked up to immaturity.
i think the fact that these institutions are recognized as "big name" gives a good indication that rns who purposely fail to take note are protecting their own ego.
some of these institutions are the best we have! i imagine it would be thrilling to be accepted there as an undergrad. i'm not aware that anyone denigrated the colleges. whose ego is really at play here?
p.s. i also wanted to clarify that both jhu and columbia also confer the bsn after the first year.
and ucsf and vanderbilt don't. some do, some don't. and?
listen, for a topic and thread i didn't think enough of to actually even start, i am definitely certain that my interest has long since peaked.
i continue to wish good things for all potential students. it's great to see some posters doing a little critical thinking and comprehending the intent of what began as a side rant in another discussion.
for the others? meh....fairly unimpressed to see such defensiveness and blatant inability to grasp some pretty basic concepts. such as:
no one is putting down your choice.
it's your $$$, quit rationalizations directed toward me. me no really care.
the focus was solely on the 12 months prior to nclex. 45k,65k, 95k---where's that puke'y icon? get ready for it........my opinion....... huh uh!
i'd probably be willing to fork over for the msn portion. haven't decided yet w/the whole dnp nonsense.
50k= "top" msn np or 120k="top" msn np. these are called choices. equal outcomes--different paths.
it's generally considered a good thing to be aware of other options that you may not have previously known. i'm speaking of the royal you. it's not always about "you".
but i gotta say i do admire the spunk of those not even yet finished with undergrad.
"i have spoken to several nurse practitioners and physicians who recognize "big name" institutions. i think this is really dependent on if your coworkers are rns or physicians and apns"
And while it may be heavily geographical, I have spoken to several nurse practitioners and physicians who recognize "big name" institutions. I think this is really dependent on if your coworkers are RNs or physicians and APNs, to be quite honest.
As enrollment in any MEPN or ABSN program is predicated on the completion of a prior degree, and presumably a little bit of life and professional experience, I find that statement both patronizing and incredibly ignorant.
I suppose as you have not yet completed even your first college degree, and likely won't have time to gain much life or professional experience in the few days you'll have between graduation and when nursing school starts, your condescending view of your future healthcare partners can be most generously chalked up to immaturity.
Your suppositions are just that. I am not here to attack anyone or appear ignorant. My intentions were not to degrade RNs, but I do recognize that they are stretched incredibly thin (as I work as a CNA in trauma) and probably would not have time to care if you are from Joe Schmoe University. No offense even remotely intended.
not to beat a dead horse but I got my MSN through a very expensive private school and the 3 yrs was about $50k.
Nobody has seemed to care where I got my MSN.
I did however, graduate from a very "Big Name" school for my Bachelor's degree and I was in a highly paid and highly responsible position in another field prior to entering nursing. So I didn't care too much about the "name" of my MSN school since I have a CV that already "proved" a lot of things to prosepective employers.
It all depends on your own situation whether the $$$ spent is worth it.
I'd imagine graduating from an Ivy League (or that type of 'big name' school) might be an advantage if one plans to continue in nursing academia. As far as clinical preparation, though, a school's individual reputation is more important in determining the quality of education one will receive. Many ADN programs have a great reputation for training competent nurses (including critical thinking and all that!). And some big name schools focus so much on critical thinking and not on skills that when their gradautes get their first job, their colleagues get frustrated at how long it takes them to start working on their own.
Big name schools do usually have the advantage of being affiliated with big name hospitals and that can translate to more opportunities for graduates who did many of their clinicals. There can be unique opportunities and specialty departments at large regional teaching hospitals. Also, the hospital affiliated with the school should be prepared to transition the new grads from that specific school as opposed to some hospitals that may have differing expectations for new grad hires.
However, if someone is just looking to get a typical job as a nurse or nurse practitioner, then a big name really wouldn't make a difference to most hiring personnel.
I'm not sure it's wise, but I'd like to throw in my .02 as someone who made a decision this year between public and private ivy programs.
I'm a vegan, so I don't beat dead horses. But, if you find this redundant, sorry.
I don't care if it's ivy, moss, lichen or mud. I chose Yale because their program was exactly what I was looking for. When I came to visit, they were very accommodating and allowed me to sit in on a course in my specialty. The faculty were warm, confident and supportive. The learning environment suited me. The students were friendly and welcoming. They were honest about it's flaws, yet also highly recommended the program, and all said that they would make the same choice again. I admire the research done there. I like that I can take a language course, or other course outside the SON, if I want to. They offered a nice financial aid package. There are a plethora of clinical sites. I could go on, but I won't.
It fit, on many levels. It fit in ways that the other two public programs I applied to and was accepted by did not.
In the end, Yale's program was about 10% more money than the public schools I declined. All other things considered, I see that 10% as money well spent.
A great many factors should play a role in such a huge decision. And, cost should be one of them.
My MPH is from UC Berkeley. So, I appreciate the quality of education that can be found at public universities.
So throw that into the "case study on choices" file
Ok. Since this thread reappeared... I'm still attending a state university and have been given tentative offers from prospective employers based upon my work as a bedside nurse. One of them is from an Ivy league school that is attached to a hospital.
I've paid my tuition in cash every semester. It's my work and presentation that has caught the attention of the neurosurgeons who have offered me a job.
I'll say it again... to each his/her own. It's all about your perspective and the length you're willing to go. I built up my debt in an undergrad program from a well-known school for my first undergrad degree. That was enough of a lesson for me.
I'm not sure it's wise, but I'd like to throw in my .02 as someone who made a decision this year between public and private ivy programs.
I'm a vegan, so I don't beat dead horses. But, if you find this redundant, sorry.
I don't care if it's ivy, moss, lichen or mud. I chose Yale because their program was exactly what I was looking for. When I came to visit, they were very accommodating and allowed me to sit in on a course in my specialty. The faculty were warm, confident and supportive. The learning environment suited me. The students were friendly and welcoming. They were honest about it's flaws, yet also highly recommended the program, and all said that they would make the same choice again. I admire the research done there. I like that I can take a language course, or other course outside the SON, if I want to. They offered a nice financial aid package. There are a plethora of clinical sites. I could go on, but I won't.
It fit, on many levels. It fit in ways that the other two public programs I applied to and was accepted by did not.
In the end, Yale's program was about 10% more money than the public schools I declined. All other things considered, I see that 10% as money well spent.
A great many factors should play a role in such a huge decision. And, cost should be one of them.
My MPH is from UC Berkeley. So, I appreciate the quality of education that can be found at public universities.
So throw that into the "case study on choices" file
Well said, and I look forward to seeing you in the fall!! :)
This is a market economy and they can charge whatever the market will bear. I don't think it is "wrong." There have been some good arguments made in favor of accepting the high cost. I chose a top tier school (not officially an Ivy, but close) b/c their program is organized in a way that best suits my lifestlye and the needs of my family. It will cost 60K, vs 18K for the state U that is actually closer. The only one impressed by my "big name school" so far is my sister-in-law because she got her NP at Duke, lol. She just said, "wow, that's a good school." If I had attended the state U, she'd have said "too bad you couldn't go to Duke." That in itself is worth the extra $43K to me, lol. No, just kidding.
I am hoping that I will get some tuition repayment from my future employer. :fingers crossed: It was a big chance to take, and I agonized over it, but the decision came down to maxamizing what I could earn while in school (I have to work to support my family, taking 2 years off was NOT an option) and balancing my children's schedules and needs. The more expensive program had the easier to manage schedule and finishes 2 semesters sooner.
If the state U program had offered the same flexibility, I'd have gone there in a minute, name recognition or no name recognition. Now, I'm referring to advanced practice programs, but I have to thinks people looking into entry level nursing have similiar needs and conflicts as I and have their own reasons for choosing what they do.
My oldest child is attending an Ivy that is going to cost well over $200K before she is finished. She is majoring in Art. Is that wrong? I don't think it is wrong. Dumb maybe. If she were paying a mere 90K for a nursing degree she might at least be employable upoin graduation.
But, if you find this redundant, sorry.
fluffhead
28 Posts
Hot topic! :igtsyt:
When I got the sticker price for the Columbia, I fell out of my chair, got up and called the financial aid office and then fell down again...
There are days when I feel completely duped - and other days when I can't help but realize how far I have come (I was working at Trader Joe's in 2005, now I'm a few semesters from an MSN/ANP while working as an onc RN in a top rated hospital).
Worth it? I can't say. All those powerpoint presentations could be viewed online and tests taken as well without the two cents of an NP at the lecture hall, right? Longer clinical hours might have been nice. More care plans...I don't know. You learn it all on the job for the most part. Seriously.
The money spent is an investment - it ought to pay off. I have met NPs who started off as volunteers in high school, became LPN and then RN and then eventually went back for a MSN - they do the same job as the accelerated grads. At my age and time in life, I wasn't going to get on the waiting list for the Peralta District nursing programs - I'm almost done. Is it a quality education? I don't know. The curriculum builds in master's level courses during the pre-NCLEX coursework, so the price is not cut and dried as Miss Mab couches it - but there is no arguing that the price is steep - and Bush will likely cut reimbursement programs for working in underserved areas, right?
I'm happy I don't work in an office or in retail anymore. Sallie Mae will be getting checks from me for years to come - I'm in bed with her...like it or not. Hopefully we will be well trained and take good care of people and change health care for the better, and be happy in how we spend our days, even if we are slightly disgruntled about how we spend our money ("I owe, I owe..." said the little dwarves)...:oornt: