Would You Press Charges?

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I worked on the adolescent psych unit tonight and a 14 year old with a long history of violence and psychiatric problems punched me in the jaw. She was already in the midst of attacking another nurse and when I stepped in to help is when I was punched. Went to the ER, nothing's broken, but my jaw is so sore! Also when she made contact, the force threw my head back and I pulled a neck muscle.

Would you press charges against this patient? She is already due for a court date for a similar charge.

Originally Posted by Corvette Guy

IMHO, Denny's for breakfast & an incident at an adolescent psych unit seems like apples to oranges. Of course, such behavior is unacceptable & unexpected at a restaurant. However, although such behavior is unacceptable at an adolescent psych unit it is certainly not out of the norm.

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I never posted her behavior was acceptable, did I? ;)

It's also not out of the norm for any nurse to be subjected to Inadequate nurse patient levels, or nurses being asked to do things outside of their scope of practice, or take patients they are not trained for, or be floated to a unit and given the cruddiest load when they are not familiar with the unit, or used for the hospital to dump blame on when it hits the fan. Does that mean they should accept it, just because it's the norm? We need to fix the things wrong with the system, otherwise they just keep getting worse. Not just the nurses, but the patients suffer when we do that.

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

I am not sure if I would press charges, considering you knew the situation you were getting yourself into by steping in, and the manor of the child's state of mind, I would however file workman's comp. Even though you did not break your jaw you could still have problems. My cousin's son kicked me smack square in the jaw a few summers ago. We were wrestling around and after I said "OK, thats enough" he kicked me as hard as he could in the jaw, when I was totally off gaurd. It made an audible 'pop'. I could hardly eat for a week and still have TMJ and have to take medication at night because sometimes I clench it when I am sleeping and it aches in the morning.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Like usual, I'm in the minority, LOL. My first instinct is not to press charges!

My first instinct would be anger and a desire to press charges. Ultimately I probably wouldn't because it wouldn't be worth the drama. Those questions you ask will be asked by a judge and lawyers in her defense and the charges would be dropped.

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
It's also not out of the norm for any nurse to be subjected to Inadequate nurse patient levels, or nurses being asked to do things outside of their scope of practice, or take patients they are not trained for, or be floated to a unit and given the cruddiest load when they are not familiar with the unit, or used for the hospital to dump blame on when it hits the fan. Does that mean they should accept it, just because it's the norm? We need to fix the things wrong with the system, otherwise they just keep getting worse. Not just the nurses, but the patients suffer when we do that.

Are we still talking about an issue that happened at an adolescent psych unit?

BTW, your still not understanding my previous entire text! I don't wish to wage battle with you over this subject, especially if I'm having a difficult time helping you understand where I'm coming from. ;)

I never associated the norm & acceptable together, did I? I surely had no intentions of doing such.

My previous post R/T the OP's topic was that the patient's axns were unacceptable even though may be the norm at an adolescent psych unit. Then, I went on to post how since the patient's axn were more of the norm, certainly compared to such happening at a Denny's restaurant [unless maybe the food was exceptionally bad... J/K ;)], at such tx facility that maybe an alternative consequence other than pressing criminal charges was appropriate.

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Are we still talking about an issue that happened at an adolescent psych unit?

BTW, your still not understanding my previous entire text! I don't wish to wage battle with you over this subject, especially if I'm having a difficult time helping you understand where I'm coming from. ;)

Yes we are still talking about a psych unit, and I understood where you were coming from. Not trying to start a war either.

If you haven't been on a psych unit you might not understand as well. It depends on the type of unit. Most, as would be found in a normal hospital are pretty low grade cases. Depression, suiside attemts, many one or two with more problems, but not normally incompetent. No one that should be allowed to assult anyone, any more then anywhere else, Including denny's ;).

If it was a high security ward it might be different. I had an Uncle that worked on a ward and got a nice chunk of his arm bitten out. All he could do is file for comp as the patient was not metally competent.

I can understand an adolesent that has depression and anger issues, as I was there as an adolesent. They also need to understand the full implications of their actions though. Losing smoke privliges, or having to write and essay just doesn't do it. One of the major problems I see today in the juvenile corrections system is that just becuase they are adolesents they are told "don't do that" :nono: and that is all that ever happens, untill they turn 18 and are thrown in prison for things they have been getting away with all along. If they are shown early how wrong action have consequences, it is easier to keep habits of behavior from setting up in the first place.

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Specializes in Emergency.

If that would have occured at my facility the patient would already be on their way to jail It would not be up for me to decide.

Here violence against a health care worker is not tolerated for any reason. Besides getting accidently hit while attempting to restrain someone is one thing but it takes thought and a deliberate action to punch someone in the face hard enough to break ones jaw.

And as Tweety said here its a felony, equivalent to assaulting a police officer. From the original post it would be two felonies as the person was already attacking someone else. I beleive most states at age 14 charge felony crimes as adults.

Rj

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Specializes in ER.

Some thoughts I had-

If it had happened on an adult forensic unit I would still press charges so the fact it's a psych unit doesn't make a difference to me. I agree that it is less likely that anything will be done because of her psych diagnosis. Pressing charges would be about me declaring I will not accept that behavior more than the thought of punishment or revenge.

If it had happened on a pediatric unit and she was remorseful and apologetic I wouldn't, kids make some big mistakes at that age and deserve a second chance. But then again, some kids are crying out for someone to set limits with them. You also have to back up your words "that behavior is unacceptable," with actions. The next time someone takes a shot at her, she will remember that there are other ways to deal with the situation without using fists. Perhaps using it as a teaching situation between the two of you will make a better moment out of a regrettable action.

Forgetting the patient, nurses need to have consistent follow up on unacceptable behavior. I would hate to contribute to an administration attitude of cover up. I think this should be your decision, not the hospital's, or the treatment team's.

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
Yes we are still talking about a psych unit, and I understood where you were coming from. Not trying to start a war either.

If you haven't been on a psych unit you might not understand as well. It depends on the type of unit. Most, as would be found in a normal hospital are pretty low grade cases. Depression, suiside attemts, many one or two with more problems, but not normally incompetent. No one that should be allowed to assult anyone, any more then anywhere else, Including denny's ;).

If it was a high security ward it might be different. I had an Uncle that worked on a ward and got a nice chunk of his arm bitten out. All he could do is file for comp as the patient was not metally competent.

I can understand an adolesent that has depression and anger issues, as I was there as an adolesent. They also need to understand the full implications of their actions though. Losing smoke privliges, or having to write and essay just doesn't do it. One of the major problems I see today in the juvenile corrections system is that just becuase they are adolesents they are told "don't do that" :nono: and that is all that ever happens, untill they turn 18 and are thrown in prison for things they have been getting away with all along. If they are shown early how wrong action have consequences, it is easier to keep habits of behavior from setting up in the first place.

Repost: Again, I have no first hand experience in Psych NSG. I will say I've had experience with such via friends & family.

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My ex-wife was an LVN Psych RN & have a family member w/ in-patient adolescent psych acute care facility HX.

LOL, just because I posted I don't have first-hand experience does not mean I'm ignorant of this subject otherwise I would just lurk on this Thread, rather than post. Therefore, I think I have a pretty good understanding that adolescent psych patient's are prone to violent tendencies. ;)

Furthermore, I raised my two son's as a single parent when they were teenagers. So, I'm well aware that teenagers need & should be accountable for their axns.

Again, we were talking about an isolated incident on whether or not the OP should press criminal charges R/T to physical assault by an adolescent psych patient. If this patient understood the implications of inappropriate axns R/T poor anger mgmt, then maybe this teenager would not be a patient in the first place. :doh:

If you think the appropriate axn is to press criminal charges [as an adult?] then that is your opinion.

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Specializes in LTC and MED-SURG.
If that would have occured at my facility the patient would already be on their way to jail It would not be up for me to decide. Here violence against a health care worker is not tolerated for any reason. Besides getting accidently hit while attempting to restrain someone is one thing but it takes thought and a deliberate action to punch someone in the face hard enough to break ones jaw.

And as Tweety said here its a felony, equivalent to assaulting a police officer. From the original post it would be two felonies as the person was already attacking someone else. I beleive most states at age 14 charge felony crimes as adults.

Rj

From a recent LPN graduate: I'm a little lost. Does Meerkat, the OP, normally work on a Psych unit ("I worked on the adolescent psych unit tonight")and also Rj, is your facility a psychiatric facility? Am I being naive, inexperienced, or both? Do people with mental problems in a facility for treating mental problems get put in jail for acting mentally unstable?

Are adult psych units and adolescent psych units different? Aren't nurses who work psych trained to handle unstable people?

Also to KeithEMU or anyone: Why are most adolescents on a psych ward if they are fully competent? Also, correctional facility vs psych unit. ??????

These questions are in no way meant to be sarcastic. I am just really confused about and interested in the original question and the responses given. I'm not getting it.

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Thanks for all your responses. To answer a couple of questions, my supervisor was the one she was attacking when I stepped in. I don't think she is pressing charges. Also, this patient has been deemed 'competent'. We think that she is in our facility to avoid going to jail. You see that alot sometimes...juvenile criminals take a 'holiday' from jail by making a suicidal threat and they get sent to us, which is alot more 'cushy' than jail.

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
If that would have occured at my facility the patient would already be on their way to jail It would not be up for me to decide.

Here violence against a health care worker is not tolerated for any reason. Besides getting accidently hit while attempting to restrain someone is one thing but it takes thought and a deliberate action to punch someone in the face hard enough to break ones jaw.

And as Tweety said here its a felony, equivalent to assaulting a police officer. From the original post it would be two felonies as the person was already attacking someone else. I beleive most states at age 14 charge felony crimes as adults.

Rj

Hey rjflyn -

I worked on the adolescent psych unit tonight and a 14 year old with a long history of violence and psychiatric problems punched me in the jaw. She was already in the midst of attacking another nurse and when I stepped in to help is when I was punched. Went to the ER, nothing's broken, but my jaw is so sore! Also when she made contact, the force threw my head back and I pulled a neck muscle.

Would you press charges against this patient? She is already due for a court date for a similar charge.

- - -

When did the OP say her jaw was broken?

How do you know this act was premeditated?

This patient may have been so angry [and illogical in thought] that the OP was percieved as a threat, or a flash coming at an angle, and the punch in the face was a lucky [or unlucky] punch.

Please, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. Plus, trying not to read in btwn the lines of the original OP's post. This is a very good Thread. So, please don't get worked up at me. ;)

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
From a recent LPN graduate: I'm a little lost. Does Meerkat, the OP, normally work on a Psych unit ("I worked on the adolescent psych unit tonight")and also Rj, is your facility a psychiatric facility? Am I being naive, inexperienced, or both? Do people with mental problems in a facility for treating mental problems get put in jail for acting mentally unstable?

Are adult psych units and adolescent psych units different? Aren't nurses who work psych trained to handle unstable people?

Also to KeithEMU or anyone: Why are most adolescents on a psych ward if they are fully competent? Also, correctional facility vs psych unit. ??????

These questions are in no way meant to be sarcastic. I am just really confused about and interested in the original question and the responses given. I'm not getting it.

IMHO, all excellent questions!

Which, does not mean I don't know the possible answers. Its just that the above info would be helpful to this Thread.

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