Would You Press Charges?

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I worked on the adolescent psych unit tonight and a 14 year old with a long history of violence and psychiatric problems punched me in the jaw. She was already in the midst of attacking another nurse and when I stepped in to help is when I was punched. Went to the ER, nothing's broken, but my jaw is so sore! Also when she made contact, the force threw my head back and I pulled a neck muscle.

Would you press charges against this patient? She is already due for a court date for a similar charge.

Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
interesting scenario.

in 2005, my then 15 yo dd was in and out of 6 psyche hospitals, all in a locked dual dx unit.

a few psychiatrists dx'd her differently, which made getting a definitive dx near impossible....other psychiatrists just ran with the initial (1st hospitalization) dx, which was bipolar.

during her last hospitalization, her behavior was notably agitated. she was highly destructive on the unit, breaking and throwing things. they were giving her prn thorazine.

i received a call one noc, that dd had assaulted a pt. it was a young man and dd beat the living daylights out of him, giving him a black eye and fat lip. from my understanding, dd had sought out the assistance of staff when this boy was being sexually vulgar to the female pts. and i did confirm this with the staff. they were busy at the time that dd had approached them. but nonetheless, the boy did have the choice of pressing charges, which he opted not to. it would have prevented the situation from escalating however, had the staff intervened when dd informed them of this boy's vulgarity. i blame both staff and dd.

then a few days later she assaulted a female pt. the girl and her parents pressed charges. dd begged for me to get a lawyer. i refused. i told her time and time again, she never has the right to lay a hand on anyone else.

she might have had some psyche disorders but does not negate her ability to differentiate right from wrong.

esp in an adolescent unit, hormones are often a factor in aggressive behavior. some of these hospitals made my head spin. obviously some are better run than others.

there's nothing black and white about these situations. all one can do is look at the big picture and make a decision accordingly.

good luck meerkat.

leslie

Leslie, thank you for sharing your personal experience directly related to the OP's Thread. I, too, have a similar real life story. Yet, I'm not as bold to post such up.

I agree with you 100% there is nothing black & white about these situations.

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
In a way I agree with you, EXCEPT, imho, jail is NOT rehabilitation, it is punitive. In jail, one mainly learns to be more criminal. I would personally prefer that adolescents learn something else.

Bingo!

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
This is the originial post. You just missed it, easy enough to do.

Also JAIL is not a detension center. Minors do not normally go to jail unless they have several serious charges and the court decides to try them as an adult.

KeithEMU -

:imbar Yep, sure enough I missed the line about She is already due for a court date for a similar charge.

Obviously, if I'd not missed such some of my post would have been let's say a little different. Nonetheless, IMHO a lot of needed facts have been left out that should be included. BTW, is this date for a Juvenile Court appearance, for prior juvenile delinquency of antisocial behavior, or is this 14 year old to be tried in Court as an adult? I know perfectly well jail is not a detention center, if your referring to Juvenile Hall. However, detention can be a holding place [confinement] prior to disposition by a court. Furthermore, I'm well aware of the ins & outs of the juvenile justice system... at least in Texas. All I will say is I had first-hand experience as R/T to family. Yet, I already posted that fact.

My I ask, are you a regsitered nurse at an adolescent psych acute, or long term treatment facility?

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My I ask, are you a registered nurse at an adolescent psych acute, or long term treatment facility?

No, I'm not. I'm currently a student. I've been in a psych unit as a teen. Had Family members and my ex-wife on psych unit as well. Two family members are psych nurses, in the A1 ward at Western State Hospital. They deal with the severe cases. Lots of depression as a teen. Thank God I grew out of it. I did some dumb things but I knew what I was doing at the time. I never hurt anyone though, through violence.

Yes I may be a little more sensitive to that, but a lot of it is because of my oldest daughter. She was raped when she was 8 by a 15 yo boy. He had already raped a girl in PA and the judge up there sent him to counseling for a few time and let him off. Then he came to VA and raped my daughter and 2 others. Here he was tried as an adult and sent to 5 yrs in prison after he spent about 2 in a max security juvenile center while court was in progress.

I know it is best if someone can be rehabilitated, but there is a point where you need to get them away from people they can harm. He gets out this September. So yea I might be a little jumpy on violence. But you tell me, how far is too far?

When people make a concerted effort to better themselves they should be given a chance, but until they are ready to change your just wasting your time and endangering others. The purpose of the penal system is to deter further action while protecting the public. It's not the best system, but it's all we have. The Juvenile centers are more about rehab. At 14 they shouldn't be put in prison under normal circumstances, but a few weeks at the Hilton is not right either (yes, I'm exaggerating). Unfortunately there is no in between.

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i'm just thinking aloud.

if you chose to go in that direction, would you indeed be able to press charges? the hit was directed to your supervisor. if it is a serious consideration in pursuing this, i would consult an atty who would be able to tell you if you have a case.

leslie

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
No, I'm not. I'm currently a student. I've been in a psych unit as a teen. Had Family members and my ex-wife on psych unit as well. Two family members are psych nurses, in the A1 ward at Western State Hospital. They deal with the severe cases. Lots of depression as a teen. Thank God I grew out of it. I did some dumb things but I knew what I was doing at the time. I never hurt anyone though, through violence.

Yes I may be a little more sensitive to that, but a lot of it is because of my oldest daughter. She was raped when she was 8 by a 15 yo boy. He had already raped a girl in PA and the judge up there sent him to counseling for a few time and let him off. Then he came to VA and raped my daughter and 2 others. Here he was tried as an adult and sent to 5 yrs in prison after he spent about 2 in a max security juvenile center while court was in progress.

I know it is best if someone can be rehabilitated, but there is a point where you need to get them away from people they can harm. He gets out this September. So yea I might be a little jumpy on violence. But you tell me, how far is too far?

When people make a concerted effort to better themselves they should be given a chance, but until they are ready to change your just wasting your time and endangering others. The purpose of the penal system is to deter further action while protecting the public. It's not the best system, but it's all we have. The Juvenile centers are more about rehab. At 14 they shouldn't be put in prison under normal circumstances, but a few weeks at the Hilton is not right either (yes, I'm exaggerating). Unfortunately there is no in between.

Damn, life is hard & injustly cruel to the good folks. IMHO, it is highly understandable your jumpiness on violent matters such as these.

I do agree, some are past rehab. In fact, when I was on the high school debate team [ a looooooooog time ago] our topic was is capital punishment a detterent? My debate partner & I chose to side towards yes capital punishment is a detterent and should be implemented for certain crimes. I don't want to get on the subject of capital punishment. I was pointing out that I'm not a softy towards habitual & nonrehab type offenders.

Good luck in your studies & keep the passion of nursing alive!

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Ok, a little bit of background...this patient has already had charges of battery against her. She had a court date TODAY, but she has skillfully avoided it by doing the old 'I'm suicidal' trick and staying in the hospital. She is depresed, YES, but I have depression too, and it does not make me beat people.

This is what happened yesterday. She suddenly, without provocation, started stabbing a peer with a magic marker. I was able to grab her on the 4th strike and stop her, but she had already drawn blood on the other patient. While I attended to the patients injuries, she was sent to her room and the charge nurse went there, standing in the doorway, to discuss consequences with her. She acknowledged that she would be on room restriction at LEAST, and then attacked the charge nurse. The charge nurse came running down the hallcovering her head, trying to protect herself from the blows. That was when I went in between them so the charge nurse could get away. And she punched me. Another patient ran up to try to help, and she gave him a black eye. So that was 4 people in a matter of moments who she caused injury to.

Yea, she had a hellish childhood. But does that excuse this?

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there were times when my dd was violent/assaultive, and was held down and injected with im haldol. ea hospital has different interventions, or none.:stone and for too long, i would like at my dtr as tears just flowed from my eyes. i didn't recognize this young woman. very painful. but by excusing certain behaviors only served to enable more of the unwanted ones.

meerkat, then she did intently assault you.again this changes the perspective. if she's smart enough to be so manipulative (and also deemed legally competent), then i would have no problems pressing charges. as a nurse, i would have to know that everything possible was done for this pt. while she was in such an agitated state. providing all therapeutic interventions were applied then i think that makes your case more credible. and i am not rubberstamping all adolescents with psychiatric problems, to be tried for their behaviors. from the information you have provided, she sounds like she knows what she's doing.

leslie

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Specializes in Telemetry, OR, ICU.
Ok, a little bit of background...this patient has already had charges of battery against her. She had a court date TODAY, but she has skillfully avoided it by doing the old 'I'm suicidal' trick and staying in the hospital. She is depresed, YES, but I have depression too, and it does not make me beat people.

This is what happened yesterday. She suddenly, without provocation, started stabbing a peer with a magic marker. I was able to grab her on the 4th strike and stop her, but she had already drawn blood on the other patient. While I attended to the patients injuries, she was sent to her room and the charge nurse went there, standing in the doorway, to discuss consequences with her. She acknowledged that she would be on room restriction at LEAST, and then attacked the charge nurse. The charge nurse came running down the hallcovering her head, trying to protect herself from the blows. That was when I went in between them so the charge nurse could get away. And she punched me. Another patient ran up to try to help, and she gave him a black eye. So that was 4 people in a matter of moments who she caused injury to.

Yea, she had a hellish childhood. But does that excuse this?

Well, regardless... this little tidbit of info would have been most appropriate at the start of your Thread.

:idea:

BTW, if she had a hellish childhood ... oh nevermind I can't take this tidbit here & tidbit there info and post up any intelligent reply. I'm sorry but this 14 year old sounds like she has some deep rooted problems that may need a more secure [lock down type] psych adolescent facility than your's? BTW, how long have you worked as Psych RN, anyway?

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Yea, she had a hellish childhood. But does that excuse this?

No, there's absolutely no justification for her actions and she should be punished. I had a hellish childhood too but if I smacked somebody I'd go to jail. I think if more patients got proscecuted maybe some of the violence against health care issues would stop.

You just have to know it's not just a simple matter of calling the police and then her going to jail. Any lawyer worth his/her degree will jump on the fact that she was emotionally distressed, in a pysch unit being treated, dress her up in little girl clothes making her look very sweet and innocent and repentent, blah blah blah.

Still it might be worth you charging her just to teach her that there are consequences to this type of violence.

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Hi Meerkat

In my facillity (adult forensic), if a staff member is assulted and charges are pressed, the staff member will be moved to another unit while that patient is still on the unit.

For example, one of our techs was punched a couple of months ago and needed surgery. He is back to work but, cannot work on my unit since the patient who hit him is still here. The DA sometimes will press for more jail time but often the fact that the patient is "mentally ill" means it will not go very far.

So, for me, the question is would you be assigned to a different (worse) unit while the legal system and the facillity work this out??? Should charges be pressed?? YES... Will it make things better or worse for you??? Will it make ANY difference to the patient's outcome???? Tough call

Psych is a tough field. I honestly don't know what I would do in your shoes. On my unit I wouldn't press charges because I don't want to be moved to another area of the hospital.

Good Luck to you

Lori

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Well, regardless... this little tidbit of info would have been most appropriate at the start of your Thread.

:idea:

BTW, if she had a hellish childhood ... oh nevermind I can't take this tidbit here & tidbit there info and post up any intelligent reply. I'm sorry but this 14 year old sounds like she has some deep rooted problems that may need a more secure [lock down type] psych adolescent facility than your's? BTW, how long have you worked as Psych RN, anyway?

A little under a year

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