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World Health Organization

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Specializes in ER. Has 28 years experience.

toomuchbaloney

Has 43 years experience.

7 hours ago, happygal56 said:

The political divide is certainly apparent on this thread. ๐Ÿ™‚

The political divide is bigger than its ever been and that's no accident.

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

7 hours ago, happygal56 said:

The political divide is certainly apparent on this thread. ๐Ÿ™‚

Yes I guess it is LOL.

But IMO I would think that all people (no matter which way you lean and esp HCP) would want to find out not only what is going on at the WHO but also why; (ie is the WHO director incompetent and/or corrupt and did he cover for China's incompetence and/or corruption). As we now know this had a significant impact on the spread on the coronavirus to all countries. Trump temporarily withholding the funds that the US gives to the WHO is leverage for an investigation. Whether you like Trump or not really shouldn't matter, we all need to know this, and esp if the WHO director was in on the Chinese gov cover up.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

On 4/16/2020 at 1:40 PM, Daisy4RN said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/who-trashed-for-sharing-chinese-study-claiming-humans-cant-spread-coronavirus-during-outbreaks-onset

Whether or not you agree with the way the President has handled the covid situation doesn't change that the top dogs of the WHO have bungled their response and/or attempted to cover up for the Chinese communist government. I don't think that withholding funds temporarily until the WHO gets it together is going to create any significant problems. Quite the contrary, it should help!

The Washington Examiner? Why not just quote Rush Limbaugh directly

Please be precise in your own analysis of how WHO "bungled" this to "protect" "communist" China, that sudden bastion of Leninism that somehow yet wealthy Trump business donors choose to fully entrust their supply chains to.

The FACTS are WHO wasoffering your President real-time data dumps on COVID since last November and his own cabinet and HHS was ringing alarms he ignored right along with it.

Incidentally, wasn't your President all over the news in Jan and Feb praising China's management of Covid and insisting it wasn't our problem, all as his Administration arranged to send them our stockpiles of PPE?

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

57 minutes ago, HeartlandRN said:

Please be precise in your own analysis of how WHO "๏ปฟ๏ปฟbungled" this to "protect" "communist" China

The info is out there, just look.

Here is this one again but there are others as well

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

Edited by Daisy4RN

8 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

The info is out there, just look.

Here is this one again but there are others as well

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

So you're response is telling me to go look for information that agrees with your opinion and offer a link to an opinion BLOG. Got it. But I don't recommend trying that in graduate school.

He's a fact-verified , citable article proving what I said: your president was provided with a real-time data dump on Corvid as early as last year, by WHO -

"World Health Organization Transmitted Real Time Information about Coronavirus to Trump Administration"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html

If you actually READ the article you can see that 10 Americans with the CDC (and also with WHO) were involved in this transmission and warning. Who do you think after all are leading the epidemiologist efforts at WHO, Mao Tse Tung's great great granddaughter???

There are two separate issues being conflated here.

1. Did WHO do a good job providing accurate information to the US as this pandemic developed.

2. Would more accurate and timely information from WHO have changed our decisions.

#1 is a pretty easy one. I think there is a consensus on both sides that this is a problem Room for debate on how to manage it, but clearly their were problems here.

#2 is a bit tricky. There are some facts out there that indicate that our government had access to accurate information. It should, we have arguably the best intelligence gathering capability in the world, and don't rely on an international organization to make decisions in our best interest. By "facts", I mean the old school kind. Objective, verifiable.

I believe that our president with access to the best intelligence information gathering system on earth had ample access to information, and would not have changed his course had WHO done a better job.

I would like to hear from anybody who believes otherwise.

And, I commit to listening to what you say. I may disagree, but won't argue in this thread.

(If you doubt my premise about the information available despite WHO's shortcomings, drop me a PM. I will be happy to provide some links.)

2 hours ago, hherrn said:

I believe that our president with access to the best intelligence information gathering system on earth had ample access to information, and would not have changed his course had WHO done a better job.

I would like to hear from anybody who believes otherwise.

And, I commit to listening to what you say. I may disagree, but won't argue in this thread.

(If you doubt my premise about the information available despite WHO's shortcomings, drop me a PM. I will be happy to provide some links.)

My quibble is with the general acceptance on faith that WHO bungled something along with conspiracies (not you) that somehow an organization shock full of AMERICAN CDC medical professionals was "covering" for "communist" China. Or something. It's ludicrous and has no place being entertained by supposed professional people versed in critical thinking.

I've provided twice now fact reviewed evidence from credible sources that WHO in fact was providing real time data dumps to the Trump Administration as early as November. Considering that was the time the breakout in Wuhan was becoming evident what else would they have done to "provide it earlier".

In fact it allowed MORE time to prepare than the first SARS virus that the Bush Administration managed to contain the first one which interestingly also emerged in China in November (of 2002) - howver in that case WHO didn't notify the Bush Admin until February of 2003 - and yet somehow the Bush Administration was able to competently prevent it from infecting 5% and climbing of the population for a total US deaths of under 200.

Incidentally all I say in the second paragraph (I've already provided ref for the first) is available in Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002โ€“2004_SARS_outbreak, which I suggest is a far better source for reality than Daisy's opinion blog citations.

Edited by HeartlandRN

toomuchbaloney

Has 43 years experience.

1 minute ago, HeartlandRN said:

My quibble is with the general acceptance on faith that WHO bungled something along with conspiracies (not you) that somehow a predominantly AMERICAN medical professional org was "covering" for "communist" China. Or something.

I've provided twice now fact reviewed evidence from credible sources that WHO in fact was providing real time data dumps to the Trump Administration as early as November. Considering that was the time the breakout in Wuhan was becoming evident what else would they have done to "provide it earlier".

In fact it allowed MORE time to prepare than the first SARS virus that the Bush Administration managed to contain the first one which interestingly also emerged in China in November (of 2002) - howver in that case WHO didn't notify the Bush Admin until February of 2003 - and yet somehow the Bush Administration was able to competently prevent it from infecting 5% and climbing of the population for a total US deaths of under 200.

Incidentally all I say in the second paragraph (I've already provided ref for the first) is available in Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002โ€“2004_SARS_outbreak, which I suggest is a far better source for reality than Daisy's opinion blog citations.

Make no mistake, there is a propaganda campaign to divert accountability away from Trump toward the WHO. Anyone who looks at the actual facts can clearly identify what Trump is doing. He botched the American pandemic response and is desperate to put the blame on someone else. His followers are desperate to believe anything other than that their stable genius screwed this up and is lying to them.

Why didn't the Trump administration accept the WHO tests when offered? Is that subsequent failure in American testing the fault of the WHO?

57 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Make no mistake, there is a propaganda campaign to divert accountability away from Trump toward the WHO. Anyone who looks at the actual facts can clearly identify what Trump is doing. He botched the American pandemic response and is desperate to put the blame on someone else. His followers are desperate to believe anything other than that their stable genius screwed this up and is lying to them.

Why didn't the Trump administration accept the WHO tests when offered? Is that subsequent failure in American testing the fault of the WHO?

In fact the only thing he seems good at besides evading emolument laws is blaming everything he screws up on someone else. Whatever he does from conspiring with foreign enemies to dig dirt on political opponents to letting a pandemic kill (ultimately) a million or more Americans, it's always always somebody elses fault and I suspect his cult will still be covering for him when they're visiting their parents graves. It's insane. I admit to being firmly in the camp of people who thought it was a horrible idea to elect a carnival barking failed reality television show with a history of 14 or so bankruptcies and hundreds of frivolous lawsuits to President of the USA, but my contention here is with the failure to act that allowed this to become the crippling , horrendous diaster it is with no end in sight. Bush managed the first China originated SARS with approximately 200 deaths here and Obama managed to prevent the swine flu and Ebola from spreading and becoming what this is. I'm not being partisan; I'm being real.

Speaking of tests, they can't even get SWABS distributed for the tests they DO have. The Governors of Maryland and Illinois having to make their own secret contracts and flight arrangements to China to get tests and PPE. They demand to "re-open" everything while medical professionals can't get basic PPE and are reusing masks for a WEEK and citizens can't even get cleaning supplies. Gee, what could go wrong. I

Edited by HeartlandRN
tone down

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

16 hours ago, HeartlandRN said:

So you're response is telling me to go look for information that agrees with your opinion and offer a link to an opinion BLOG. Got it. But I don't recommend trying that in graduate school.

He's a fact-verified , citable article proving what I said: your president was provided with a real-time data dump on Corvid as early as last year, by WHO -

"World Health Organization Transmitted Real Time Information about Coronavirus to Trump Administration"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html

If you actually READ the article you can see that 10 Americans with the CDC (and also with WHO) were involved in this transmission and warning. Who do you think after all are leading the epidemiologist efforts at WHO, Mao Tse Tung's great great granddaughter???

I cant read your article but I found a different one that stated those people as "anonymous". Does your article state the names . And btw way the WaPo has done many hit pieces on Trump and articles that have been fact free, not the most reliable.

Again, the fact that the WHO screwed up is not propaganda, not taken on faith, and not on Daisys blog. Maybe if you read something other than the liberal news you might see that.

Edited by Daisy4RN

On 4/17/2020 at 5:59 PM, Daisy4RN said:

I guess you don't watch it then, the ones who claim to be journalists (ie not commentary shows) but yet give their opinions along with fact free news.

With all due respect there, Daisy, this is the precise sort of thing that makes me inclined to disregard you as a polemic gadfly. If defending Donald Trump against all odds and costs is what gets you through the night by all means don't let me stop you.

However it doesn't obligate the rest of us to accept opinon as fact and biased sources, opinion blogs and random quotes from Dr. Gupta as peer-reviewed sorts of evidence. But you know that, right?

Edited by HeartlandRN

57 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

I cant read your article but I found a different one that stated those people as "anonymous". Does your article state the names . And btw way the WaPo has done many hit pieces on Trump and articles that have been fact free, not the most reliable.

Again, the fact that the WHO screwed up is not propaganda, not taken on faith, and not on Daisys blog. Maybe if you read something other than the liberal news you might see that.

OK, Rush Limbaugh. "Libreral" persumably being an peer reviewed, fact-verified source that doesn't excuse the fact your president dissolved the pandemic team set up to prevent Ebola, defunded the CDC, and ignored warning after warning for 3.5 months, sent the national PPE stockpile to China in February and cancelled the contracts to maintain the national ventilator supply in 2018?

That's too bad. Unapologetically, I will NOT accept the endless excuses and blame shifting you offer, nor will I sacrifice my peers and parents for your ideology.

Edited by HeartlandRN