Women's Right to Choose

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 5:45 PM, MEINstudent said:
I am an OR nurse, and we regularly do abortions after 20 weeks, sometimes for no other reason than the woman changed her mind. Perfectly healthy baby. I exercise my right to refrain from participation, and in a huge OR, the truth is that there are only a handful of staff who will participate in them, even though the majority of the staff would probably call themselves pro-choice. I've talked with most of the staff who do them, and even though they are pro-choice, they come of those rooms feeling disturbed. One fellow nurse, who I like and respect, told me she tries not to look at the pieces of fetus, and has to think of it as a specimen in order to get through it.
It's illogical to me that a baby in the womb would not be considered a person. And since R vs W, we have learned beyond a doubt that the fetus feels pain. Neonate surgeons speak of having to give anesthetic to fetuses at 18 weeks during surgery. I can tell you beyond a doubt that abortion doctors do not give anesthetic before tearing the fetus apart and removing it by pieces.
You can be disturbed by the bills banning abortion, but what about the laws in New York, Vermont, Virginia and elsewhere being passed that ensure abortion up to birth without any restrictions? Seriously, no outrage? What is worse, a law that makes a woman carry a child to birth and then allows to her to give the baby to a loving home who desires a child so badly, or allowing a woman to abort her baby at 39 weeks because she changes her mind or wants to prove a point that it is her body/her choice?
For the record, I am pro-life, and pro services for women and children. I hate Donald Trump. I wish there were a pro-life Democrat to vote for because I feel stuck voting Republican because abortion has to be at the top of my voting issues, but on pretty much every other issue I side with Democrat. I am seeking to adopt, but while there are 400,000 children in foster care in this country, the number up for adoption is significantly lower, and babies up for adoption are almost non-existent. I have a 2 year old, and almost all of the children up for adoption in my state are required to go to a home where they are the only child, or the youngest child. Infertility runs in my family, and I have 2 brothers and a sister who are all looking to adopt, and it is near impossible and financially crippling.
I hear this same tired argument about people against abortion not caring about the women or babies after birth, but I don't know a single pro-life person like this. The best of us volunteer at pregnancy centers, and financially support facilities that provide housing, education and childcare for woman in need. The one near me allows a woman to live for up to 2 years after she gives birth, and helps her to get a degree so that she can get a job to support herself and her child. You should go to one of those pregnancy centers and ask about services. Then go to Planned Parenthood and ask what they offer to women who want to keep their babies but are poor, alone and afraid. Then come back and tell me who has the agenda.

your post is so full of lies... the new law in NY does no such thing, it simply codifies R v W into state law. The law does not allow for elective abortion past 24 weeks. Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion. No woman should be expected to be a surrogate for free, find your own. Abortion does not need to be the top of your list, you have put it there. and the bottom line, IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On 5/19/2019 at 6:29 PM, Emergent said:
I'm going to chime in once here.
Liberal European has much more restricted abortion laws. Most allow only up to 12 weeks. UK and Netherlands, the highest, up to 24 weeks. Portugal up to only 10 weeks.
I find it appalling that many pro choice activists want unrestricted abortion at any time during pregnancy. Although I'm generally against abortion, the 12 week cutoff seems rational and respectful of human life.
A 12 week cutoff gives the woman time, but a reasonable deadline. It acknowledges the fact that a first trimester fetuses probably has little to no self awareness.
The pro-life segment also needs to be less extreme in their goals. I advocate for a reasonable compromise that is more respectful of the human life in the womb, but also realistic of the real difficulties that women face.

24 weeks has been set, the state laws being passed are codifying R v W into state laws

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:40 PM, dream'n said:
You are wrong, what do you think partial birth abortion is? It’s when a viable fetus has a needle inserted into the back of its neck to kill it immediately prior to birth, right before the head is delivered. The baby’s head is crowning and many times it’s a perfectly healthy infant. That is why I believe abortion is a gray area. I don’t think all or early abortions should be illegal, but seriously a healthy crowning baby being killed?? That’s another matter entirely.

please get a refund from your nursing school.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:10 AM, PeakRN said:
Wow. What a constorsion of reality so that people can justify their opinion.
The vast majority of abortions are elective. Very few are the result of rape or incest, and yet you would think that it was the primary reason to seek one out from the arguments. While the numbers are hard to pin down far less than 1 percent of those who had an abortion reported the reason as rape, and more than 95% were completely elective or because they felt they could not afford to have a child.
It is interesting how men are polarized as wanting to control women, however if you look at the gallop polls that argument is far less strong than the pro choice advocates would have you believe. Depending on the year roughly 50 percent of men are pro life and 45 are pro choice. The women aren't that far off either where 50 percent are pro choice but 40 percent pro life. While this does support the notion that men are more likely to be pro life, it isn't quite the sexist domination some would like you to believe.
While resources certainly vary by locality there is no shortage of support available for those who are disadvantaged and carry a pregnancy. Housing, financial, and medical care are all available here to pregnant women and children, so I'm not quite sure where the argument about prolife advocates not caring for children is coming from. The majority of this is secular and without any push towards some religious belief.
Men are also held accountable financially. There are legal mandates for financial support and a variety of criminal and civil repercussions for not following court mandates. While this does carry a burden on the mother to appeal to the courts the option is there.
Women can place up their infant for adoption. I know countless families who wait for years trying to adopt both locally and internationally. I'm always amazed how how this always escapes the abortion conversation, the options aren't only to either have an abortion or to raise a child.
Personally I'm very prolife. This does extend beyond the issue of abortion. I'm against the death penalty. I don't support pointless wars. I very much support social services not only supporting pregnant women but also the care for children. I support better access to contraceptives and real education about reproductive health (and better education in general).
I also get quite irritated at the generalization that the men are the problem or don't care about women. I (at the time being a single man with no other children) raised one of my family members kids from birth because neither she nor the child's father were willing to do so but she wanted to carry out her pregnancy.
I also find myself frustrated at how little education is offered by the clinics locally that offer abortion. I'm not talking about some effort to dissuade women from having an abortion but rather simple post care. I've had many women come into the ED either septic, in uncontrolled pain, or with significant hemorrhage who received little or no education about the risks or when to seek follow up care.

the bottom line is, that it is none of your business. and adoption is NOT an alternative to pregnancy.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:57 AM, PeakRN said:
I disagree. I believe that the unborn child has rights.
You don't have to like my opinion. I'm still allowed to have one. You don't see me telling anyone else they can't voice their opinion.

legally, the fetus has no rights, till 24 weeks.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 1:02 AM, icthusRN said:
The overwhelming majority of abortions are done because the child is an inconvenience not due to rape/incest/trauma. Many pro lifers like myself think it’s fair to have exceptions to legislation.
There are are way more couples waiting for a baby to adopt than available supple.
Once I came to terms with that fact that this clump of cells is a life, then the reasons to abort became selfish and weak (I’m excluding the few cases of rape/incest/trauma here).
i had an unwanted, inconvenient pregnancy that I was so upset about when I found out. Now I have a sweet boy whom I wouldn’t trade for the world.

adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy. and what is available supple?

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · May 22, 2019

12 hours ago, osceteacher said:
No you can't assure us, because the science behind it all is very unclear, particularly as a lot of it is financed by pro life organisations, we still to this day don't know the facts on this. I have read copious amounts of literature and there is no stance on this. Yes the idea they can't feel pain until 27 weeks as factually accurate is outdated, but that could be the case, just as yours could.
Anecdotes are of no use.

I work with neonates. We have babies born that survive at 22-23 weeks. They feel pain. We would never perform surgery on them without pain control. That is inhumane and cruel.

https://www-ncbi-nlm-nih-gov/pubmed/27299745
https://www-ncbi-nlm-nih-gov/pubmed/25854616

I am strongly prochoice. That doesn't mean I have to ignore science. Until a fetus can survive without a specific person, it doesn't matter whether it feels pain or not, except in how we treat them in the termination. I am for including opiates when terminating or a termination method that is painless.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 1:21 AM, VivaLasViejas said:
Donning asbestos suit now...
I am proudly pro-life. It may be my body, but when we speak of pregnancy, we're talking about someone else's body. For me, it's really simple: that "clump of cells" has human DNA and is therefore human. We Americans have a Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; why should an unborn child be deprived of that right? It doesn't make sense to me.
That being said, I'm all for free birth control, access to health care, and supporting mothers and babies after they're born, even if that means welfare and food stamps. I'd much rather pay taxes for that than for abortion. (My state is one that forces taxpayers to foot the bill for everyone's abortions, to which I strenuously object and have written letters to the governor and state legislators. Not that it does any good.) And FTR, I'm opposed to the death penalty as well, even though murderers are in an entirely separate category from innocent babies.
I don't judge anyone who has had an abortion. My sister had one right around the time of Roe v. Wade, and even though I disagree with the actions she took, it didn't make her a bad person. I don't think any woman faced with that decision is a bad person. She may just be in a bad situation and feel she has no other option. I know even the best birth control, used properly, can fail---I got pregnant with my last child while I was on the Pill AND using a barrier, so anything's possible. It wasn't a good time for me to be pregnant; we had three other kids and were poor as church mice. But for me, there was no "choice", I would carry that child to term. I ended up with the best kid a mother could ever ask for and can't imagine my life without him.
You may say that at least it worked out for me---not everyone has a happy ending to their pregnancy story. That may very well be true. But I still advocate for choosing life, and I applaud the lawmakers who are standing up for the unborn. Every life counts, from the centenarian on down to the tiny embryo hidden away in his/her mother's womb. But of course that's my opinion, which I hope I can express without being shouted down the way a couple of other members have been (one response to a pro-lifer was a rather crude invitation to go do something we don't talk about on a professional website "off"). I won't shove my beliefs down anyone else's throat, but I hate it when someone says we nurses should all speak up for reproductive "rights". We are not a monolith. There are a good many pro-life nurses out there, and they deserve to be heard too.
Carry on.

viva, you know better, there is NO such thing as an unborn child.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

22 hours ago, Toadsmom said:
Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

as a christian, why are you against abortion? there is NO proscription against it in the bible, in fact there is a prescription FOR it.... If happened in christ's time, and he did not speak against it.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

19 hours ago, nursej22 said:
Also, can you quote the verse(s) where Jesus condemned abortion?

they can not, because there are none.

guest317 · May 22, 2019

I guess I am in the minority here. I've never had children, nor do I want any, but personally I would not choose to have an abortion. I know that there are some terrible things that happen in the world where pregnancy may be an end result, but I believe that abortion is in fact, killing a child. Jer. 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you..." God knows us before we are formed in the womb. If the reproductive rights are so vital to women, then I would say, as a woman, that my Constitutional Rights are just as important, yet people are always trying to trample on the 2nd Amendment, which provides me a constitutional right. I would humbly ask that if you are going to comment you refrain from being nasty or argumentative about my comment. I have just as much right to post my disagreement with abortion as anyone who posts their agreement with abortion.

morte, LPN, LVN · May 22, 2019

6 minutes ago, catladyx8 said:
I guess I am in the minority here. I've never had children, nor do I want any, but personally I would not choose to have an abortion. I know that there are some terrible things that happen in the world where pregnancy may be an end result, but I believe that abortion is in fact, killing a child. Jer. 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you..." God knows us before we are formed in the womb. If the reproductive rights are so vital to women, then I would say, as a woman, that my Constitutional Rights are just as important, yet people are always trying to trample on the 2nd Amendment, which provides me a constitutional right. I would humbly ask that if you are going to comment you refrain from being nasty or argumentative about my comment. I have just as much right to post my disagreement with abortion as anyone who posts their agreement with abortion.

and you should/need to understand that your religion has no place in our laws.