My mother gave birth to me via emergency C-section after 18 intense hours of labor (it took the doctors that long to realize my mom's hips were too narrow for giving birth), when her (and my) vitals began to tank. My younger sister was a planned C-section, both because of hospital policy (not allowing lady partsl births after a C-section) and because there was almost no chance my mom could give birth to her lady partslly, even if she had wanted to.
On the other hand, my sister-in-law had a C-section with my nephew, because he had been diagnosed with gastroschisis. But four years later, she lady partslly gave birth to my beautiful niece, with no problems whatsoever. As you can see, the hospital had no such policy about the C-Sections.
Whether or not someone wants a C-Section, that can be left to debate. That is not the issue I found in this article. The issue I found is that someone compared a C-Section to rape! How on Earth can you justify something like that? I understand that some women feel incredibly disappointed that their wishes aren't being taken into consideration, but the fact of the matter is that hospitals have these policies for a reason. Yes, part of it is to cover their own tails and prevent lawsuits, but why would there be lawsuits in the first place? Risks and/or harm to the patient? Gee, there's a thought. Rape is an act of violence, and of dominating power over your victim. How is that in any way comparable?
My personal opinion... Yes, when I do have children, I would like to give birth lady partslly. But if I ever find myself in a place where my medical staff are telling me that I need to have a C-Section, do it! Anything to keep my baby and I safe (in that order, for me at least).
Anyone else think that this woman is far out of reach in her logic? Or do you think she's on to something?
Isn't the objective of delivery to have a healthy mother and child?
She needs to find another hospital. Then if she needs a section, she should be grateful that they were able to do it.
Too many women are today placing too much emphasis on the method rather than the outcome of delivery.
Well believe it or not some women actually don't want a medical birth....they want a birth like one is suppose to be. Our society treats L&D like a problem.....it's not fair to criticize mothers that are picking up on this.
Patients have the right to self-determination. But a doctor/hospital/hospital staff shouldn't be required to go against their policies to do it. If a patient is well enough to be "picky" about what they want, then they need to go where they can get it. If the next hospital that can do it is far away, then they have the choice, find a way to get there or have the treatment you can get close by.
Patients have the right to say no. I should have the right to say no I won't accept the liability if you won't accept my judgement.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Patients have the right to self-determination. But a doctor/hospital/hospital staff shouldn't be required to go against their policies to do it. If a patient is well enough to be "picky" about what they want, then they need to go where they can get it. If the next hospital that can do it is far away, then they have the choice, find a way to get there or have the treatment you can get close by.
Patients have the right to say no. I should have the right to say no I won't accept the liability if you won't accept my judgement.
So what happens to her rights if they get a court order to force her into a C Section?
Again, this woman have the choice to go to the nearest facility that is able to assist her in safely giving a lady partsl birth, even if she have to get a motel or hotel closer to her due date, so she can have the best care possible for her and her baby. I wouldn't want to go to a hospital that is hesitant in assisting me giving birth. I would be very, very concerned for my life and my newborn's life.
That choice may not be much more than theoretical. There is only one hospital within 100 miles of my home with a L&D unit. That limits choices for all the women in the county.
So what happens to her rights if they get a court order to force her into a C Section?
I'd have to know more about the court order. Is it to get her to have one no matter what, or is it saying if she goes to this hospital in labor, she's getting a c-section?
Preaching to the choir. I was diagnosed with PTSD after a lady partsl delivery. The hospital that performed the delivery was under review because they were doing too many sections for what was percieved to be the doctors convenience. I had the misfortune to go into labour on Wednesday night and deliver Friday morning. Friday being the day that "too" may sections were performed. I wound up needing corrective surgery to repair the damage done during that delivery. Diagnosed first with PPD and then finally PTSD. It took me years to even consider another pregnancy, then I was deemed to be high risk and told where I could deliver and what my options would be if plan A failed.
If they had done the damned section in the first place, I would have been spared a psychiatric stay, a couple of gynie procedures to repair the damage caused by high forceps and my last child would have been born sooner.
So don't tell me that I take the risks of surgery lightly.
So sorry to hear about your PTSD. I know that must have been very difficult.
It's just that so often, the risks of c-section are completely glossed over, while the dangers of VBAC are grossly exaggerated (been there, done that, had c/s with my first- terrible experience/recovery with PPD afterwards- and then a VBAC)-- when the risks of c-section are very, very real.
Our c-section rate keeps climbing every year. The WHO says c-section rate should be between 5-10%, no more than 15%. Our national average right now is over 30% (don't have the latest number right now, but it can be found at the ICAN website), much closer to 40% in some areas. That's astounding.
Too many OBs are practicing defensive medicine (taking action even when not needed, so it looks like they were being proactive) instead of looking out for their patient's (and baby's) best interests.
I think some OBs are beginning to realize that women can be empowered, educated consumers.
I guess I could be poking fun at the tone of your comment, not the idea, of self-determination, because women don't get classes in self-determination during pregnancy, they get pamphlets, books, and classes on how to ask their doctors what is best for them. They get tours of hospitals that tell them how it's going to work for them while they're there. In all the planned hospital births I've attended, I've only had one doctor provide a semblance of self-determination to the patient and that was after the nurse told her she'd be in bed for the duration of her pitocin induction, could have clear fluids only, and needed constant monitoring. The doctor interrupted her to say the patient was an adult in the hospital, not jail, and could do whatever she liked.
We must have known a lot of the same doctors :icon_roll. I'll admit to being idealistic. I teach, and autonomy is one of my soapboxes. Hoping to influence the next generation of nurses so that we can at some point influence the docs a few generations down.
Patients have the right to self-determination. But a doctor/hospital/hospital staff shouldn't be required to go against their policies to do it. If a patient is well enough to be "picky" about what they want, then they need to go where they can get it. If the next hospital that can do it is far away, then they have the choice, find a way to get there or have the treatment you can get close by.
Patients have the right to say no. I should have the right to say no I won't accept the liability if you won't accept my judgement.
To an extent, I agree. Until labor, the doctor has the right to refer and discharge the client if she is not willing to accept his/her recommendations. In labor, however, we can't turn them away and we can't force procedures on them.
Healthcare professionals do have the right to refuse to do something we think is unsafe or poor care, but IMO that should extend only to active processes, not passive ones. An OB has the right to refuse a social induction, or a patient choice c/s, for example (and refer that client to someone else), but does not have the right to refuse to "allow" a client to lady partslly birth or to carry past term. Refusing to allow a client to allow nature to take its course requires forcing the client to have a procedure against his/her will.
We're taught in first semester of nursing school that "pain is whatever the patient says it is." This woman says that's how she feels (the original comparison to rape). End of story. It's not for us to say that someone is overreacting or not. That's the same as saying, "you have a healthy baby, how can you be disappointed?"
Those of us who have had or attended home births, even with obstetrical complications, know that there is something radically wrong with hospital birth in the U.S. We need to keep pushing for further development- epidurals that restrict movement and cause more complications/interventions, and Cesareans where the team is talking about the Red Sox, are by no means ideal.
Again, this woman have the choice to go to the nearest facility that is able to assist her in safely giving a lady partsl birth, even if she have to get a motel or hotel closer to her due date, so she can have the best care possible for her and her baby. I wouldn't want to go to a hospital that is hesitant in assisting me giving birth. I would be very, very concerned for my life and my newborn's life.
I have no idea where she lives, but women in similar situations certainly live near me. I live in a state where the major medmal carrier has refused to cover VBAC, essentially making VBAC unavailable to most women in the state at any facility.
I believe that there was mention that the md's insurancecarrier would not cover him to do VBAC's...perhaps he has had some really bad outcomes? I agree that she should find another md, hsp if she has her heart set on a VBAC. NO HSP SHOULD DO DELIVERIES IF THEY ARE NOT SET UP, ROUND THE CLOCK, FOR EMERGENCY C/S!!
I have to say that I go back to the concept that rape is about dominance, control and violence...I can definitely understand her statement. Is it rape...no not by the legal definitions, but is it assault/battery - yes. If you do not have access to another hospital in the area, and they refuse to do VBAC out of fear and monetary concerns...that does not offer the patient an option at all. Moving to another location is not an option for most people. What concerns me is the banning of VBACs. Is this another doctor convenience issue? Is this a malpractice sue happy issue, a money issue? And how do we as nurses help to solve these problems long term for patients?
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CrunchyMama, ASN, RN
1,068 Posts
Well believe it or not some women actually don't want a medical birth....they want a birth like one is suppose to be. Our society treats L&D like a problem.....it's not fair to criticize mothers that are picking up on this.