My mother gave birth to me via emergency C-section after 18 intense hours of labor (it took the doctors that long to realize my mom's hips were too narrow for giving birth), when her (and my) vitals began to tank. My younger sister was a planned C-section, both because of hospital policy (not allowing lady partsl births after a C-section) and because there was almost no chance my mom could give birth to her lady partslly, even if she had wanted to.
On the other hand, my sister-in-law had a C-section with my nephew, because he had been diagnosed with gastroschisis. But four years later, she lady partslly gave birth to my beautiful niece, with no problems whatsoever. As you can see, the hospital had no such policy about the C-Sections.
Whether or not someone wants a C-Section, that can be left to debate. That is not the issue I found in this article. The issue I found is that someone compared a C-Section to rape! How on Earth can you justify something like that? I understand that some women feel incredibly disappointed that their wishes aren't being taken into consideration, but the fact of the matter is that hospitals have these policies for a reason. Yes, part of it is to cover their own tails and prevent lawsuits, but why would there be lawsuits in the first place? Risks and/or harm to the patient? Gee, there's a thought. Rape is an act of violence, and of dominating power over your victim. How is that in any way comparable?
My personal opinion... Yes, when I do have children, I would like to give birth lady partslly. But if I ever find myself in a place where my medical staff are telling me that I need to have a C-Section, do it! Anything to keep my baby and I safe (in that order, for me at least).
Anyone else think that this woman is far out of reach in her logic? Or do you think she's on to something?
When I first saw this story I thought what several posters have already mentioned. "Why not deliver somewhere else, even if you have to travel, and pay for it yourself?" But then I thought, what other hospital/doctor would want to deliver her (either vbac or c/s)? Doesn't this patient seem like a lawsuit ready to happen? I agree that the hospital that has a policy of no vbacs and states that it does not have the staffing for an emergency c/s should not offer ob services. If c/s's are at about 30% in this country, how does this hospital "plan" every c/s it does unless their rates are very much below the national average?
I have been sexually assaulted and abused and I don't feel insulted by her. In fact I have also had a Gynecologist act inappropriate and very aggressive in providing care to me and it made me feel much the same as it did when I was sexually assaulted and they Gyno didn't sexually assault me. A woman can feel violated comparable to rape or sexual assault without it technically being rape or sexual assault and I am speaking from first hand experience on the matter.
Would you feel violated if you were forced to have a vasectomy because someone felt it was what was best?
The thing is no one CAN force me. This is America. I have the right to seek another medical opinion or take my case to a different hospital. This is simply not comparable to rape.
However, should several physicians agree that a vasectomy would be beneficial to me, I would comply rather than yelling rape and making a disgusting spectacle of myself.
When I first saw this story I thought what several posters have already mentioned. "Why not deliver somewhere else, even if you have to travel, and pay for it yourself?" But then I thought, what other hospital/doctor would want to deliver her (either vbac or c/s)? Doesn't this patient seem like a lawsuit ready to happen? I agree that the hospital that has a policy of no vbacs and states that it does not have the staffing for an emergency c/s should not offer ob services. If c/s's are at about 30% in this country, how does this hospital "plan" every c/s it does unless their rates are very much below the national average?
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
The thing is no one CAN force me. This is America. I have the right to seek another medical opinion or take my case to a different hospital. This is simply not comparable to rape.
However, should several physicians agree that a vasectomy would be beneficial to me, I would comply rather than yelling rape and making a disgusting spectacle of myself.
Things can be forced when court orders are brought into the picture.
Like I stated before, as a woman that has been sexually assaulted I can see the comparison and I don't think this woman is making a disgusting spectacle of herself. I do find such harsh judgments on this woman disgusting, especially from anyone that has no idea what it is like to be put in her situation or people that act like childbirth and surgery is no biggie when it comes to someones wishes regarding their own childs birth.
Specializes in Pediatrics, Lactation, Women's Health, Obstetrics.
From what I have read, if a c-section is court ordered- yes, they can actually send the police to find you and bring you in and force you to have a c-section. Scary! Sounds like assault and battery to me! I can definitely see the comparison to rape.
From the original article of this thread: "Szabo is skeptical that a judge would order a pregnant woman to undergo surgery that many consider unnecessary". Unfortunately for this woman, her skepticism may be pointed in the wrong direction. There has already been a precedent set for this exact type of case (forced court-ordered c-sections for those who prefer to have a VBAC). I hope for her sake that the hospital does not seek a court order.
The link below is to an article written about a woman who was forced by court order to have a c-section (1996). Afterward, she tried to sue the hospital & physicians over violating her "right to bodily integrity, a right to refuse unwanted medical treatment, a right to make important personal and family decisions regarding the bearing of children without undue governmental interference and a right to religious freedom." The court "held that the order that the patient submit to a cesarean was not violative of the patient's constitutional rights" and did not find the hospital and attending physicians liable.
Below is another link to an article (2005), on the NAPW (National Advocates for Pregnant Women) website, about court ordered c-sections. The section that stuck with me the most from this article:
"And you can't be legally compelled to undergo any other medical procedure for the benefit of another person. "You don't have to donate your kidney, your bone marrow, or your blood, even if someone else might die without it," explains Howard Minkoff, M.D., chair of obstetrics and gynecology at Maimonides Medical Center, in Brooklyn, New York, and coauthor (with Paltrow) on an analysis of the Rowland case published in the December 2004 issue of Obstetrics and Gynecology. You also can't be prosecuted for murder if you refuse. "So why should c-sections be any different?" the doctor adds. "That's saying pregnant women have fewer rights than anyone else, including a fetus."
This third link is to a medical-anthropological paper written about 9 cases of court-ordered c-sections in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Fascinating paper.
Nope. Not turning into an abortion debate. I'm as pro-life as a they come but I believe that you must take into account mom and baby's life when it comes to delivery. One does not trump the other. You must act in both of their best interests and mom has a right to decide about her delivery. This mom has a proven scar and a proven pelvis. She is a perfect candidate for VBAC. Why should she have to travel hours for a VBAC??? She has 3 other children to care for. I don't know about AZ but my state has laws against midwives attending homebirth VBACs. Why is the right to birth lady partslly (when one can safely birth lady partslly) even an issue.
I did actually talk with a woman who had been raped and who had undergone a c-section. She thought her c-section was worse than the rape. Why? Because after she was raped, people validated her feelings and allowed her to expressed her fear, anger, sadness, etc. After her c-section, people told her just to be grateful she and the baby were okay. She wound up traveling down to the Farm in TN to VBAC.
When I was in labor with my 1st baby, my nurses asked me to rate my pain on a scale of 1-10. I was writhing in pain on the bed with no epidural and pitocen shooting through my veins. I said 9. She looked at me in disgust and said, "10 is gunshot wound. What is your pain really?" I never felt so defeated in my life. When I expressed my doubts in getting through childbirth, she simply flipped her hand and said, "Women have been doing this for millions of years."
I decided to go into nursing after that in order to advocate for patients in the way that my nurse didn't advocate or support me. Sadly, I'm seeing my L&D nurse in many of the responses here. I guess we are so used to women not caring (or expressing disconnect) about their birth experience that we think all women do/should feel the same.
I know this is in the speciatly area for OB I'm not sure that all the people posting are in OB so I want to remind everyone or educate everyone that yes all hospitals that do labor and delivery can do an emergency c/section. However the accepted standard of care from decision to incision is 30 minutes. it can be longer for more outlying facilities. The whole point of having of having a vbac in the hospital is to have the or team "immediatly" available. if a mom comes into a hospital that does delivery babies if they are especially more outlying, even if it is emergent like a chord prolapse. they may have to call the anethesiologist at home to come in and the ob to come in from home. That is still an emergency it just takes longer. and within 30 minutes is still acceptable, although you can try to grab someone from the main or or any surgeon, but they may or may not do it if they are even there.
She makes a great point in that article - the hospital responded to her 2nd baby who was in distress and she was grateful for that c-section which saved her baby. She already had 1 VBAC there. With her proven scar (and a 2x proven pelvis), her risk of uterine rupture goes down. The hospital cannot seem to explain why they were able to respond in a timely fashion with her son in fetal distress but they suddenly won't be able to respond if this baby goes into distress (from a UR or not).
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Sounds like assault and battery to me! I can definitely see the comparison to rape. 
dcampbell
129 Posts
When I first saw this story I thought what several posters have already mentioned. "Why not deliver somewhere else, even if you have to travel, and pay for it yourself?" But then I thought, what other hospital/doctor would want to deliver her (either vbac or c/s)? Doesn't this patient seem like a lawsuit ready to happen? I agree that the hospital that has a policy of no vbacs and states that it does not have the staffing for an emergency c/s should not offer ob services. If c/s's are at about 30% in this country, how does this hospital "plan" every c/s it does unless their rates are very much below the national average?