will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

icyounurse, BSN, RN · Aug 28, 2008

Yes, complications do arise during pregnancy but complications are less likely to occur if you are getting prenatal care. If they do, then they are caught early.
And how about personal accountability? How about not getting pregnant if you can't afford the medical bills or don't have insurance? How about getting a job that offers medical insurance?

Well that would just be a perfect world filled with people who are very responsible and infallible.

But how about facing the reality that many people are going to make bad choices and when you "punish" them for these choices, you also punish their children.

Children who didnt ask to be born to someone without insurance or prenatal care.

Also you cannot make sweeping generalizations about those without access to health insurance or health care. In our profit driven system it under the right set of circumstances, it could easily be you or someone you love facing no treatment options for an illness.

CRNA2007 · Aug 28, 2008

How are they going to starve with WIC and food stamps? And people that are that poor certainly qualify for medicaid. Once again the wealthiest poor in the world in this country. How about not buying alcohol and cigarettes when you have a hungry baby at home? How about getting a job and actually supporting one's child instead of making the kids mother bear the full burden of raising them. Hope and change ain't going to pay the bills, but personal responsibility will.

How about NOT getting hurt when you don't have medical insurance. How about letting your kids starve to death because you can't afford them and they aren't mine.
How about saving us all some money and making parents educate their own children.
How about dumping Medicare and SS because your parents/grandparents should have been as smart as mine and actually prepared for retirement.
You see the silliness of that argument... It can never end. Everyone for themselves and to hades with everyone else...
Yea, that was SO the point of America. :)

Atheos · Aug 28, 2008

Actually being that I'm more libertarian than anything, I actually agree with most of your post.
I don't mean that kids should starve but that's what charity organizations are for.
Most wealthy don't have a probably giving to charity, they have a problem being FORCED to give to charity.

In for a penny in for a pound. If people like CRNA don't want to pay for health care. I shouldn't have to pay for anything not directly affecting me...

I say let's be done with it. Dump SS, Medicare, Free Meal programs, Public Education and everything else that doesn't specifically benefit me.

I'll go all out and vote Republican too.

Atheos · Aug 28, 2008

How are they going to starve with WIC and food stamps? And people that are that poor certainly qualify for medicaid. Once again the wealthiest poor in the world in this country. How about not buying alcohol and cigarettes when you have a hungry baby at home? How about getting a job and actually supporting one's child instead of making the kids mother bear the full burden of raising them. Hope and change ain't going to pay the bills, but personal responsibility will.

I like how you always make blatantly prejudiced statement at certain populations.

I am going to bow out of this one. Prejudicial and stereotypical arguments can't be argued with.

CRNA2007 · Aug 28, 2008

You know what. Those irresponsible parents were innocent children at some point as well and someone said don't punish the children. Lets pull the children out of that environment and put them into an environment that teaches them how to make the correct choices in life.

People are really tired of the old "for the children" argument when you are seeing 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients.

As far as making sweeping generalizations that is what we get from the left about those of us that are tired of paying for everyone else's poor judgment. So the generalizations go both ways here.

Well that would just be a perfect world filled with people who are very responsible and infallible.
But how about facing the reality that many people are going to make bad choices and when you "punish" them for these choices, you also punish their children.
Children who didnt ask to be born to someone without insurance or prenatal care.
Also you cannot make sweeping generalizations about those without access to health insurance or health care. In our profit driven system it under the right set of circumstances, it could easily be you or someone you love facing no treatment options for an illness.

Cindy-san · Aug 28, 2008

I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

It's an interesting question, but I'll vote no. I think it'll be exactly the same, only instead of paying for my overpriced insurance, my taxes will increase.

Right now we have a system of sorts where the gov't pays for certain people's health care. Like the insurance companies, they pick an issue and decide how much it should cost and pay that much. They also decide what they don't want to pay for (like pressure ulcers).

Hospitals make money by throwing people out ASAP, so they can collect the maximum amount of money for the minimum amount of service provided. The longer the pt stays, the less the hosp gets, unless they can "justify" the pt staying longer. And as pts get out fast, you can add more to the "come-in" list, and thus, more people to bill for.

Docs make money by seeing patients. If they see a bunch, they bill for that number of reimbursments. Their amount of successful reimbursments might actually improve, if they don't have to fight with stupid insurance companies for every little dime (like my docs had to do when I had that horrible Cigna garbage).

I don't think we'll be switched to a pay-by-the-hour system or whatever it is they have in England and/or Canada and that's why their pay is lower (I forgot how it goes there, sorry). The medical field here isn't going to let that happen.

dee78 · Aug 28, 2008

Well that would just be a perfect world filled with people who are very responsible and infallible.
But how about facing the reality that many people are going to make bad choices and when you "punish" them for these choices, you also punish their children.
Children who didnt ask to be born to someone without insurance or prenatal care.
Also you cannot make sweeping generalizations about those without access to health insurance or health care. In our profit driven system it under the right set of circumstances, it could easily be you or someone you love facing no treatment options for an illness.

You are right, people do make bad decisions but then they are rewarded for them. Maybe if there were consequences to their actions then people might think before they make the decisions that they do. The idea is that people would stop making those decisions because they know that they will be responsible instead of the government. The children that are affected would be dealt with as needed.

CRNA2007 · Aug 28, 2008

I pay for healthcare. I pay for my health care and for several other peoples as well. If universal health care is so great why does everyone have to be forced into it? All for dumping social insecurity the rate of return on that is a joke. The lowest 40% of earners in this country pay $0 in income taxes so they reap the benfits without any costs to them at the federal level and with the EITC a lot of people actually make moeny off the current tax code scheme.

In for a penny in for a pound. If people like CRNA don't want to pay for health care. I shouldn't have to pay for anything not directly affecting me...
I say let's be done with it. Dump SS, Medicare, Free Meal programs, Public Education and everything else that doesn't specifically benefit me.
I'll go all out and vote Republican too.

icyounurse, BSN, RN · Aug 28, 2008

You know what. Those irresponsible parents were innocent children at some point as well and someone said don't punish the children. Lets pull the children out of that environment and put them into an environment that teaches them how to make the correct choices in life.
People are really tired of the old "for the children" argument when you are seeing 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients.
As far as making sweeping generalizations that is what we get from the left about those of us that are tired of paying for everyone else's poor judgment. So the generalizations go both ways here.

I was actually born to young parents below the poverty line with no health insurance and food stamps and all that jazz. I am so grateful that I live in a country where my single mother was able to utilize public resources and rise out of poverty and encourage me to go to college. I am so glad that I was able to get basic healthcare through medicaid and get food from food stamps when my mother could only afford to feed us and not herself,while she went back to school and worked her way through at taco bell and weighed like 90 lbs so we could be fed.

I really think that your perpetration that all born into poverty dont deserve a chance is pretty disturbing. I am glad that you were not in charge when I was growing up or who knows where I would have ended up.

I certainly hope your personal issues with the poor dont affect your practice and that you still treat your patients with respect regardless of their background.

Turd.Ferguson · Aug 28, 2008

But the wealthy, who could still maintain their lifestyle on a small pay cut, are concerned that universal healthcare might make a little dent in their annual salary?
Sorry, that's awful selfish. This world has become SO self-centered... everyone out for themselves. "It's all about me." Makes me SICK.

Sorry, but I couldn't help but see the irony in these statements.

"Everyone out for themselves." Therefore, give me the money that YOU have made so I can take care of ME.

There may be an argument to Universal Healthcare, but this is not it.

dee78 · Aug 28, 2008

I like how you always make blatantly prejudiced statement at certain populations.
I am going to bow out of this one. Prejudicial and stereotypical arguments can't be argued with.

I love how people read into things too much and make them more than what they really are. These behaviors occur all across the country, in urban cities and country towns.

Cindy-san · Aug 28, 2008

If universal health care is so great why does everyone have to be forced into it?

Because change terrifies people. The grander the scale, the grander the terror. Misinformation, ignorance of the facts, unwillingness to learn and apathy doesn't help either. We see this everyday at our jobs, right?

Although, not everyone is terrified of change, of course.