will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

[Trauma_Team_1]

I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

[Atheos]

There are people now who have insurance that are non-compliant or don't use their insurance for preventative medicine. Who's to say that universal health care will improve the amount of preventative medicine that is given?

I have seen too many people now that could've, should've, and would've, but didn't.

That's quite easy, in theory at least. Penalize the people that refuse to partake in preventative care. We do it for smokers and the obese now in some places.

May be a little big brotherish but if you had A B and C available but only chose to utilize C the when lack of A and B leads to X and Y you have to pay more...

It's sounds mean but we don't have a culture of preventative medicine. If we force that culture eventually it will become our culture and there will be no more need to force it.

Of course I am a strong believer in sometimes people just don't know what is good for them and a little nudge is good... Where the nudging ends is always a problem of course. There, of course could be opt out options and such. Yes, complicated I know but nothing worth doing is ever easy.

[Jolie, BSN]

Yup and then people fight tooth and nail to stop a system of preventative medicine that would be IMMENSELY cheaper than what we have.

In another thread, you decried the state of healthcare in the U.S. where you claim that pregnancy outcomes are inferior to those of 3rd world countries.

I responsed by challenging you to identify a single county in this nation which does not offer FREE prenatal and early-childhood preventive healthcare via county health departments, public health clinics, faith-based initiatives, academic medical centers, etc. My point is that maternal-child health is an area where FREE preventive care is universally available to those who will simpy be responsible enough to use it. But it doesn't happen. The poor outcomes you cite occur largely because irresponsible Americans fail to utilize the free, preventive healthcare that already exists.

Given this situation, how do you propose to fashion a system where Americans will responsibly access free preventive medicine rather than rely on ERs (and NICUs) for expensive emergencies that could have been prevented, and stop using ERs inappropriately for minor issues that don't warrant emergency care?

[Jolie, BSN]

That's quite easy, in theory at least. Penalize the people that refuse to partake in preventative care.

How in the world do you "penalize" someone who bears absolutely no responsibility or accountability (financial or otherwise) for their healthcare bills?

[Atheos]

In another thread, you decried the state of healthcare in the U.S. where you claim that pregnancy outcomes are inferior to those of 3rd world countries.

I responsed by challenging you to identify a single county in this nation which does not offer FREE prenatal and early-childhood preventive healthcare via county health departments, public health clinics, faith-based initiatives, academic medical centers, etc. My point is that maternal-child health is an area where FREE preventive care is universally available to those who will simpy be responsible enough to use it. But it doesn't happen. The poor outcomes you cite occur largely because irresponsible Americans fail to utilize the free, preventive healthcare that already exists.

Given this situation, how do you propose to fashion a system where Americans will responsibly access free preventive medicine rather than rely on ERs and NICUs for expensive emergency care that may or may not be truly necessary?

If you mean me I don't remember seeing that. As an aside having been the father of a newborn I never knew there WERE free prenatal programs.

I know there is a health department that will check you for STDs but I just recently found out they provide PPDS, Chest xrays and other things. Everyone knows about free health clinics.

The problem would be more of 'people not being educated' about the resources than being irresponsible. Don't say they can educate themselves because you can't learn something you aren't aware of having to learn.

As for preventative medicine the entire system should focus on it. Sure, it will take awhile but guess what? Most doctor's I have seen have very LITTLE knowledge about preventative stuff. All I have ever heard was exercise and don't smoke. Never have been given an outside resource for preventative stuff (besides smoking).

The ER and NICU is easy. How about a specific department set up where when someone comes in to the ER or other inappropriate place they are sent there? How hard would it be to do that. How hard would it be to allow ER's to stop treating non emergency care and allow them to redirect the patient to the appropriate resource?

Everything I know about preventative care from medicine and diet I learned on my own. If I have children I can pass it on. There has to be a point in one's life (maybe school) where one is educated about services that are available.

So Jolie... How do YOU propose to make the healthcare in this country better???

[icyounurse, BSN, RN]

In another thread, you decried the state of healthcare in the U.S. where you claim that pregnancy outcomes are inferior to those of 3rd world countries.

I responsed by challenging you to identify a single county in this nation which does not offer FREE prenatal and early-childhood preventive healthcare via county health departments, public health clinics, faith-based initiatives, academic medical centers, etc. My point is that maternal-child health is an area where FREE preventive care is universally available to those who will simpy be responsible enough to use it. But it doesn't happen. The poor outcomes you cite occur largely because irresponsible Americans fail to utilize the free, preventive healthcare that already exists.

Given this situation, how do you propose to fashion a system where Americans will responsibly access free preventive medicine rather than rely on ERs (and NICUs) for expensive emergencies that could have been prevented, and stop using ERs inappropriately for minor issues that don't warrant emergency care?

You make a good point. But actually I think that many of those clinics are actually over-utilized and lacking in many needed resources due to a lack of public funding.

Plus they do not offer specialty care, so when something is abnormal or presents a higher risk healthwise, many of these people have no one to provide said care. So they let their problem get unmanageable and end up coming in to the ED with a critical situation.

[Atheos]

How in the world do you "penalize" someone who bears absolutely no responsibility or accountability (financial or otherwise) for their healthcare bills?

How do you penalize them now? We are talking about a major cultur shift Jolie.

The same way you penalize the alcoholic. No liver transplant...

It's not that hard...

[CRNA2007]

Yeah, it's called Europe.

Sigh.

Can you provide a factual basis for your claims?

[Jolie, BSN]

So Jolie... How do YOU propose to make the healthcare in this country better???

By demanding personal responsibility and accountability (financial and otherwise) of every able bodied person. When individuals are required to take responsibility for their own medical costs, inappropriate utilization will stop, and costs will plummet.

[Atheos]

Question Jolie. If we have these clinics and no one is using them. HOw does that bear any matter on the case? The aforementioned 3rd world country DEFINITELY does not have these clinics. There is still no excuse for us having a higher infant mortality rate...

[icyounurse, BSN, RN]

By demanding personal responsibility and accountability (financial and otherwise) of every able bodied person. When individuals are required to take responsibility for their own medical costs, inappropriate utilization will stop, and costs will plummet.

Yeah, cuz having individuals take responsibility for their own medical costs and health works SO well right now:chuckle:chuckle:chuckle

[CRNA2007]

They can no longer buy cigarettes, liquor or lottery tickets for one week.

How in the world do you "penalize" someone who bears absolutely no responsibility or accountability (financial or otherwise) for their healthcare bills?

[Atheos]

By demanding personal responsibility and accountability (financial and otherwise) of every able bodied person. When individuals are required to take responsibility for their own medical costs, inappropriate utilization will stop, and costs will plummet.

Like how they are plummeting now with private insurance?

Oops it's rising... Your idea is the one we have now and it doesn't work...