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Why do some "Youtube doctors" say ventilators kill?

Disasters   (341 Views | 8 Replies)

Runsoncoffee99 has 16 years experience and specializes in Peds.

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These Youtube doctors and nurses claim it is the ventilators killing the patients,but I am personally not convinced. 

I read before that most vented Covid 19  patients will die,and not from respiratory issues, but from sepsis or multi organ failure,which has nothing to do with a ventilator.

I notice they do not even seem to offer an alternative,only that vents do not work.

So what are we supposed to do,watch an ARDS patient progress into cardiac arrest?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2160344/Video-Nurse-claims-COVID-19-patients-murdered-NY-hospitals.html

 

 

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Well first, the source you linked is a tabloid so there's that. Also, there are alternatives to mechanical ventilation that are being utilized right now and discussed all over the internet. 

Here is a link to an actual ED physician in NYC who gives what I think is an excellent description of why ventilators don't work and sometimes harm a certain subset of patients. 

https://zdoggmd.com/scott-weingart/

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A Hit With The Ladies has 4 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Psych.

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Saying that vents do not work is like saying the automatic external defibrillator (AED) does not work. It is only a device used when patients are in a critical condition. Guess which people statistically end up dying the most? Those in critical condition.

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Emergent has 25 years experience.

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Treatment protocols have shifted away from intubation with covid since outcomes were terrible. Now, aggressive oxygen support and positioning techniques have gained favor.

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Runsoncoffee99 has 16 years experience and specializes in Peds.

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If a patient already has severe respirations with retractions, what is giving oxygen and the prone position going to do in an emergency?

 

Also,most people who are on ventilators do not actually die of respiratory issues,but sepsis or cardiac issues caused by Covid. So I don't know why some are blaming the poor outcomes on the ventilator?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Runsoncoffee99 said:

If a patient already has severe respirations with retractions, what is giving oxygen and the prone position going to do in an emergency?

Nobody, Nobody is saying that you would not intubate in this situation. You really need to watch the video I linked and do some research on sites other than tabloid newspapers. 

 

21 minutes ago, Runsoncoffee99 said:

Also,most people who are on ventilators do not actually die of respiratory issues,but sepsis or cardiac issues caused by Covid.

Please cite your source for this. 

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1 hour ago, Runsoncoffee99 said:

If a patient already has severe respirations with retractions, what is giving oxygen and the prone position going to do in an emergency?

Also, those aren't the only interventions.

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herring_RN specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

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There is much we don't yet know about this virus. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with premeditated malice. 

How to treat CODID-19 is complicated. Here is one doctor's opinion. After reading it I purchased 15 pulse oximeters for our household, family, and friends.

Quote

The Infection That’s Silently Killing Coronavirus Patients

This is what I learned during 10 days of treating Covid pneumonia at Bellevue Hospital.

...    I volunteered to spend 10 days at Bellevue, helping at the hospital where I trained. Over those days, I realized that we are not detecting the deadly pneumonia the virus causes early enough and that we could be doing more to keep patients off ventilators — and alive...

...   We are just beginning to recognize that Covid pneumonia initially causes a form of oxygen deprivation we call “silent hypoxia” — “silent” because of its insidious, hard-to-detect nature...

...   when Covid pneumonia first strikes, patients don’t feel short of breath, even as their oxygen levels fall. And by the time they do, they have alarmingly low oxygen levels and moderate-to-severe pneumonia (as seen on chest X-rays). Normal oxygen saturation for most persons at sea level is 94 to 100 percent; Covid pneumonia patients I saw had oxygen saturations as low as 50 percent.

To my amazement, most patients I saw said they had been sick for a week or so with fever, cough, upset stomach and fatigue, but they only became short of breath the day they came to the hospital. Their pneumonia had clearly been going on for days, but by the time they felt they had to go to the hospital, they were often already in critical condition...

...   In my 30 years of practice, however, most patients requiring emergency intubation are in shock, have altered mental status or are grunting to breathe. Covid pneumonia cases are very different.

A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors. Although breathing fast, they had relatively minimal apparent distress, despite dangerously low oxygen levels and terrible pneumonia on chest X-rays.

We are only just beginning to understand why this is so. The coronavirus attacks lung cells that make surfactant. This substance helps the air sacs in the lungs stay open between breaths and is critical to normal lung function. As the inflammation from Covid pneumonia starts, it causes the air sacs to collapse, and oxygen levels fall. Yet the lungs initially remain “compliant,” not yet stiff or heavy with fluid. This means patients can still expel carbon dioxide and without a buildup of carbon dioxide, patients do not feel short of breath...

...   There is a way we could identify more patients who have Covid pneumonia sooner and treat them more effectively — and it would not require waiting for a coronavirus test at a hospital or doctor’s office. It requires detecting silent hypoxia early through a common medical device that can be purchased without a prescription at most pharmacies: a pulse oximeter...

...   Widespread pulse oximetry screening for Covid pneumonia — whether people check themselves on home devices or go to clinics or doctors’ offices — could provide an early warning system for the kinds of breathing problems associated with Covid pneumonia. People using the devices at home would want to consult with their doctors to reduce the number of people who come to the E.R. unnecessarily because they misinterpret their device... 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/Sunday/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

 

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ivyleaf has 13 years experience and specializes in Ambulatory Case Management, Clinic, Psychiatry.

351 Posts; 9,565 Profile Views

On 4/29/2020 at 8:03 AM, Wuzzie said:

Well first, the source you linked is a tabloid so there's that. Also, there are alternatives to mechanical ventilation that are being utilized right now and discussed all over the internet. 

Here is a link to an actual ED physician in NYC who gives what I think is an excellent description of why ventilators don't work and sometimes harm a certain subset of patients. 

https://zdoggmd.com/scott-weingart/

I am watching this now, super interesting

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