Why do we do this? Why do we allow it?

Nurses General Nursing

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Why do we continue to feed nursing students the answers that they should be finding themselves?

Look at this thread:

https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/iv-infusion-501126-page3.html#post4507159

Why are so many of us willing to provide answers to student questions, when providing the answer allows the student to avoid research and mathematic calcuation that is invaluable to a successful nursing career?

I have always thought that those who provide answers are simply feeding their own need to be valuable. Yet I often see responders arguing that we (as nurturing, experienced nurses) should be providing the answers. In fact (they say) we have an obligation to provide the up and coming nursing students with solutions to their homework problems, lest we be seen as "eating our young."

What is wrong with this picture?

Specializes in Med/Surg, DSU, Ortho, Onc, Psych.

I was always hopeless at maths. You know why? No-one took the time to actually sit down and explain some basic principles to me (which I understand now) and my parents only had basic schooling cos they had to go and work when young to pay rent and eat. When I first failed my drug calculation test I was so upset, I locked myself away for about 5 hours, studied and understood where I went wrong, went back the next day and kicked ar*e on that test and passed 100%.

Some people may not be as fast or as good as you perhaps in maths, or in other areas. Aren't we all here to help each other?

I don't know if they are being lazy - do the posters say that or are you just assuming it? I would assume they have tried to find the answer and got desperate maybe.

They also need to understand the answers as well - they can't just write down drug calc answers for example, they have to show the working out too (in Aus anyway). And if they don't take the time to understand an answer they will be the ones in the doghouse when they lose their job, get in trouble and maybe lose their license to practice.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

I agree with grandmawrinkle-- roser you will likely make yourself bonkers over this, and I'm not sure there is a way to determine which questions are from "tried everything on my own and still stumped" types from the "save me the work" types of questions.

What drives me straight up the wall is a really great post that while not giving the actual answer, points the student in the right direction, asks a few thought provoking questions, suggests possible alternate resources etc with another post right under it giving the #%$# answer without thinking about what the student may have already tried to do on their own. :banghead: Normally a post that gets the student to think or points to other resources take more time and thought to compose, as well. Sort of thoughtless to put the answer right under one of those imo.

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Hmmmm.......Whatever happened to going to see a tutor? I would think that they would have some resource at their college campus where they could get some help. At my school (it was a community college) they had a place where you could go -- I think it was called the ICC or something, anyways you could go there and they had a sheet there where you could look up the subject that you were having a problem with and they had times and what tutors were available for that particular subject. You could sign up for a time (it was in 30 min. increments) and the tutor would sit down with you and work one-on-one with whatever area you were having problems with. I would think that they would have something like that available. Part of the money you pay the college is going towards funding it -- it's free, utilize it!!! Our college also had what was called the "Pass Office." For this you needed a referral from an instructor -- If a student was in potential danger of failing a class, they could get the referral and get some specialized tutoring. With this type of tutoring -- you meet with a tutor weekly throughout the rest of the course. However, the student needs to take the initiative early on in the course if they see that they are heading down that road of potentially failing the class. Nip it in the bud, so to speak, before it gets any worse. I've utilized it several times and am glad that I did. Again, your money is going towards this service. One last thought......My very first med-surge rotation, I had this instructor that said, "You have to take the responsibility for your own learning." I took that to heart and have never forgotten it. After all, you need to be your own advocate. I apologize for blathering on (I tend to be wordy and sometimes just need to get to the point -- good lord, sometimes I even annoy myself!! I know, I know -- I'm working on it!!). Anyhow, hope this makes sense!!

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

"of course you're correct. let's stop teaching alltogether and let everybody learn everything on their own. afterall, we were all born knowing everything and never needed help."

:lol2::lol2:too funny. but who said anything about not needing a teacher? if you'll notice, i referred to spoonfeeding answers to students. that is not teaching at all. that's just laziness or a desire to show your knowledge.

"don't bother with the student forums"

never been on the student forums. i'm referring to students who post their questions on the general forum.

"stomp your feet/yell/scream that they dared ask it"

yes, i guess i am. but there are 2 reasons that it bothers me so much: 1) i'm tired of encountering these students on the floor. they apparently make it through basic algebra and nursing fundamentals without absorbing the basics, perhaps because they had someone feeding them homework answers and they somehow managed to escape being tested on the basics. i don't have time to teach the basics on the floor, nor should i be expected to.

and 2) we are not doing these students any favors. it reminds me of a parenting seminar i attended when my first child was very young. the lecturer pounded into our heads "someone has to teach your child the meaning of the word 'no.' either you can do it in a loving way, or the world will do it for you, in a less-than-loving way. your choice." the sooner that these newbie students learn that they must exert some effort to obtain some knowledge, the better.

" but i was a scout-sniper in the us army and have treated sucking chest wounds with strips of duck tape and mre wrappers ( makeshift flutter valve)."

well, ok then....:yeah:

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I'm a student, and I find it beyond irritating when people come on here asking for answers for their homework. It really annoys the crap out of me.

And for goodness sake, don't people know how to use google anymore!!! :devil: My goodness. Why is doing a little research so stinkin hard!!! In the amount of time one spends making a thread, they could've easily done a freakin google search to find the help they need.

I'm not the type of person to ask for help without trying to help myself. I understand that sometimes the textbook just doesn't make sense, when it comes to how certain things are worded. In those cases, I USE FREAKIN GOOGLE!!!! Why is that SO HARD for some students to understand? I can't STAND people who expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. I'm not about to give you help when I worked my *** off to get where I am and learn what I know.

If you can prove to me that you are trying to understand something but you just need a little help, then fine. I am more than willing to help those who just need a little extra help.

But to all those people who think they can ask me for answers without trying, well they can go SCREW themselves.

That being said, I don't reply to posts where they are clearly looking to be spoonfed. Or, as another member so nicely posted, use LMGT4U - Teach your lazy friends to use the internets

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Specializes in Flu clinics, Med/Surg, Acute Care.

Roser I read your responses on the other thread and I have to agree with you 100%. I think students should at least TRY to figure out the answer themselves.:idea: If they don't get the concept or the rationale behind something then they could ask then. But just to come to a forum and request for people to do your homework for you is insane. :devil:It's things like that will lead a nursing student on their last semester of nursing school to fail the twice a year pharmacology assessment 4 times! (true story) I'm sorry but when did not knowing how to do basic math become okay in nursing? :confused:I remember my second semester of nursing school (after we had supposedly mastered pharm and calc and were now safe enough to give meds..the question was, "what is a controlled substance: 1. Aspirin 2. Tylenol 3. Morphine 4. Pepcid. You would be shocked how so many students picked everything both the obvious answer. :rolleyes:

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Specializes in Gerontological Nursing, Acute Rehab.

I tend to agree with the OP....I will never, in all my days, forget my very first clinical. Besides the fact that a little ol' lady pooped right on my brand new nursing shoes, that was the day my nursing instructor gave me holy h*ll because I had a patient with a GT and didn't fully research all aspects related to the care of a patient with a GT. Now, I was fresh from high school, first time away from home, and was used to people spoon feeding me information my whole life. I learned real quick that a big part of nursing was not to know everything, but to know where and how to find the information.

I think that may be what the OP is talking about....correct me if I'm wrong....:coollook:

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Specializes in Health Information Management.

@Happy2Learn, your post totally cracked me up. Awesome.

@Roser13, I'm pretty much in your camp. I run into the same stuff in my (non-nursing) classes, and it just drives me wild. I'll help anyone who asks (politely) one time. If the person says thank you and honestly seems interested in figuring out the principle at the root of the question, I don't mind helping him/her again from time to time. However, if the person is rude, doesn't thank me for my assistance, or immediately asks for more help, I'm done.

That's the bright line that demarcates "helping" from "enabling" for me, and it works fairly well. Unfortunately, most of the people who ask me questions in my classes are a lot more interested in the answers than they are in how to get there. People who leech off my knowledge and abilities really irritate me, because I know full well they're going to act like that as long as they live. I'm not studying this hard and taking all kinds of extra classes in "hard" subjects (oh no! EXTRA MATH! *gasp!*) just to spend the rest of my days making a bunch of knowledge leeches look good.

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One of the problems with those posts is that you can't be sure that the person answering the question really knows the answer, they could be wrong. I learned early on, from hard experience, that you need to be very careful about who you trust for guidance.

I'm not saying that to criticize the members of this board but if I'm at work and if I make a horrible mistake with a patient, I would prefer that it be my mistake and not because I trusted someone else and they gave me bad advice.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
when you give someone the answers are you teaching or just helping someone who isnt cut out for the job? we all need help sometimes, and we all help each other sometimes. for some of us we help others more. nursing is about helping people, right? but sometimes you have to cut your losses and help a student find a place in the system where they can help, in order to to save lives.

O yea, i am just a nursing student but i was a Scout-Sniper in the US ARMY and have treated sucking chest wounds with strips of duck tape and MRE wrappers ( makeshift flutter valve). have given IV's in the dark, while dragging my brothers to cover while being shot at. Now i am in nursing school with kids, but in my view most of them are worth helping. If not they will be weeded out or moved into suitable jobs. thats just my 2 cents at the moment.

Old guy w/ boat, you aren't "just a" student!! We're talking about concepts in learning, or paths that will result in the most understanding, retention, etc. One of the most difficult to teach to someone else is how to improvise in a high-pressure situation and maintain a semblance of clear thought. In. that you are already an expert! Thank you for your service.

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yea i expected a response to the duck tape and MRE wrapers stuff, but that is what we were taught. if you can get it to stick, roll them on their side, and they apply pressure when they should.... they might be able to breath until the MEDIC gets to them. Thank you for being gentile.

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Specializes in LTC.

I'm a student nurse. I passed my LPN year and now I start my RN year within the next month. I didn't pass by going on allnurses! I go on allnurses to read interesting things and to learn some interesting things. I don't go on here for homework help. If I need homework help I ask a fellow student, instructor, read my textbook, etc. I don't know if buck toothed Joe that dropped out in 8th grade is answering the question or if it's an actual graduated nurse! Also people don't take kindly to doing others homework, so I'd rather not deal with the wrath! Just my 2 cents!

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