For a while now I've been reading about the so called nursing shortage and today I read a thread that discusses this issue and the general opinion that the problem is the poor working environment, pay etc. So I can't help but wonder why we aren't organized. Surely if ALL of us were unionized we'd be in a better position to negotiate. I live in Denmark where 97% of all nurses are union members. Things are not perfect here, but better than the US I think.
So, what do all of you think? Why aren't we more organized? Seems like I've read somewhere that ca. 30% of american nurses are unionized?
I am AMAZED at the misconception that people have about unions. The bottom line is this: there is strength in numbers. When asked if I would join a nurse's union there are only 2 answers: YES and where do I sign.
Is there a list or something that shows which hospitals in your state are union/non union? I'm a student and graduate in May, but I'm planning on going back to AZ to work, I know AZ is a right-to-work state .... so does that mean that NO hospitals are unionized? Sorry I just don't know much about all this.
If anyone disagrees I would like to know because I would like to see if anyone has a reason for not joining a union that I have not heard before because I have heard it all, including being in manasgement meetings where the only topic was how to STOP a union from forming. QUOTE]
How about this one: I am happy with my job, I love where I work, am treated well by management, and see no need to join a union.
So what do you do when management comes to you and says you are fired, you ask why, and they just smile and say 'cause?
How about this one: I am happy with my job, I love where I work, am treated well by management, and see no need to join a union.
A union would actually commit the employer to that, so you wouldn't have to worry about the scenario painted by the above poster, which is unfortunately all too common for nurses.
I am a nurse in a mid-Atlantic state and am not sure if you would believe me if I told you why I would not like to be unionized. I was in a union from another profession and found it to be a suffocating experience. I could not have private conversations about my work performance, had to go along with the group like a lemming, and could not be considered for promotions or transfers without being in the company for a trillion years. And lastly, I think I am too much of an independent professional to be lumped in a group whether or not I share their same values and goals. I am a Nurse, dedicated to the care of sick people, and could not and would not leave their side to "go out on strike." There are some professions that transcend the call of money.
As for California having high wages, the unions have very little to do with that as non-union hospitals, such as mine, pay just as much or more than unionized ones. The high wages have to do with the high cost of living.
Actually, the unions do have something to do with it. Non-union hospitals have to compete with union hospitals for employees. Therefore, they have to offer competitive wages to what the union hospitals offer. So the union winds up benefitting those who are not members.
I am a nurse in a mid-Atlantic state and am not sure if you would believe me if I told you why I would not like to be unionized. I was in a union from another profession and found it to be a suffocating experience. I could not have private conversations about my work performance, had to go along with the group like a lemming, and could not be considered for promotions or transfers without being in the company for a trillion years. And lastly, I think I am too much of an independent professional to be lumped in a group whether or not I share their same values and goals. I am a Nurse, dedicated to the care of sick people, and could not and would not leave their side to "go out on strike." There are some professions that transcend the call of money.
I am not looking down on your statement but trying to understand it. Are you saying that you would work for half of what you are making now and give up your health benefits to be a nurse? Most doctors I know of go into their profession to help others but they also want to be compensated and appreciated for what they do. A union is no more than a group of people who stand together and stand up for each other. Last week I read where doctors in Hawaii are demanding to be paid over $1000 per day just to be on call. They certainly are not trancending the call of money. I was in a union for a while and was not a lemming but we did have rules we had to follow, just like the hospital has rules.
if you are referring to cedars the union vote was tossed out because some union reps. threatened staff nurses who didn't want to unionize. (this is one reason i always vote no when the unions come knocking on the door).
as for california having high wages, the unions have very little to do with that as non-union hospitals, such as mine, pay just as much or more than unionized ones. the high wages have to do with the high cost of living.
very simply put, if you have a good employer who pays you a fair wage and benefits and treats you well as a partner in the healthcare business you don't need a union. if you don't have a good employer, then you may want to look at a union, but make certain the union doesn't screw you too.
as i wrote, discussing the situation with the la times and the la herald, the times had to pay higher wages because they had to compete with the unionized la herald. unions (as much as i don't like to admit it) have had a positive effect on working conditions.
let me say this: if it weren't for union contracts, a lotta rns would be paid straight time when working over 8 hrs/day--when the bush administration changed the rules regarding who should be paid time-and-a-half pay for overtime.
I am not looking down on your statement but trying to understand it. Are you saying that you would work for half of what you are making now and give up your health benefits to be a nurse? Most doctors I know of go into their profession to help others but they also want to be compensated and appreciated for what they do. A union is no more than a group of people who stand together and stand up for each other. Last week I read where doctors in Hawaii are demanding to be paid over $1000 per day just to be on call. They certainly are not trancending the call of money. I was in a union for a while and was not a lemming but we did have rules we had to follow, just like the hospital has rules.
Please let me clarify. I am not a physician, did not attend four years of medical school, did not spend 5 years residency, have student loans that are comparable to the national debt, and will never try to fathom why a physician becomes a physician. I am however very concerned about my profession and do not want it to descend to placing only a dollar value on what I do. I have always been employed in South Carolina, and as a nurse have always enjoyed excellent benefits and salaries without a union. My hospital alliance is non-profit which may make a difference and our administration beginning at the corporate level is very attuned to the needs, the accomplishments and the contributions of nurses. I would believe your statement about a union being "a group of people who stand up for one another" if the first issue they bargain wasn't payroll deduction for union dues and not my benefits. And to answer your first question, when I began my nursing career my salary was 1/20th of what it is now. And my benefits have continued their upward spiral without a union. Do I need a union? No. Do other nurses need a union? Maybe. I can only say that in my experience and on observation of conflicts between employee/employer relationships in other areas, it would appear that both may have their priorities confused. Perhaps all of us need to review why we went into nursing in the first place. How much "money" did we expect to make? And, more importantly, who did we think our target population was? Is our profession now relegated to defining what we do by the money we make? Can't we receive enourmous satisfication for helping deliver a healthy baby, watching a mother bond successfully with her infant, watching our patients return to their optimal level of function? How much more appreciated do we need to be? I have excellent insurance, tuition assistance and reimbursement, numerous education opportunities, involvement in the function and practice of my unit, service line, and my hospital, excellent retirement plans, outside benefits, overtime, call back pay, shift differential, permanent shift differential, bonuses for higher degrees, and much more. What could a union do for my coworker? When the CEO and President of my Alliance and CFO and Nursing V-P know my name, stop me and ask about my family, and how things are going, and are interested in my opinion for improvements, how could I not support my status quo? I think I have it great but am truly sorry for those nurses who are not as fortunate as I. Maybe a union is right for you, but for me at this time it is not necessary nor has ever been.
Please let me clarify. I am not a physician, did not attend four years of medical school, did not spend 5 years residency, have student loans that are comparable to the national debt, and will never try to fathom why a physician becomes a physician. I am however very concerned about my profession and do not want it to descend to placing only a dollar value on what I do. I have always been employed in South Carolina, and as a nurse have always enjoyed excellent benefits and salaries without a union. My hospital alliance is non-profit which may make a difference and our administration beginning at the corporate level is very attuned to the needs, the accomplishments and the contributions of nurses. I would believe your statement about a union being "a group of people who stand up for one another" if the first issue they bargain wasn't payroll deduction for union dues and not my benefits. And to answer your first question, when I began my nursing career my salary was 1/20th of what it is now. And my benefits have continued their upward spiral without a union. Do I need a union? No. Do other nurses need a union? Maybe. I can only say that in my experience and on observation of conflicts between employee/employer relationships in other areas, it would appear that both may have their priorities confused. Perhaps all of us need to review why we went into nursing in the first place. How much "money" did we expect to make? And, more importantly, who did we think our target population was? Is our profession now relegated to defining what we do by the money we make? Can't we receive enourmous satisfication for helping deliver a healthy baby, watching a mother bond successfully with her infant, watching our patients return to their optimal level of function? How much more appreciated do we need to be? I have excellent insurance, tuition assistance and reimbursement, numerous education opportunities, involvement in the function and practice of my unit, service line, and my hospital, excellent retirement plans, outside benefits, overtime, call back pay, shift differential, permanent shift differential, bonuses for higher degrees, and much more. What could a union do for my coworker? When the CEO and President of my Alliance and CFO and Nursing V-P know my name, stop me and ask about my family, and how things are going, and are interested in my opinion for improvements, how could I not support my status quo? I think I have it great but am truly sorry for those nurses who are not as fortunate as I. Maybe a union is right for you, but for me at this time it is not necessary nor has ever been.
How about the fact that the California Nurses Association has lobbied and gotten passed legislation that improves patient care...such as lower nurse to patient ratios?
HappyCamper - I agree with you. Count me in as someone who would not work at a hospital if I had to join a union.
As to a "collective voice" ... all you have to do is hang around allnurses.com and you will see that there is no such thing as a collective voice. We all think differently regarding the solutions to the problems in the medical field.
How about the fact that the California Nurses Association has lobbied and gotten passed legislation that improves patient care...such as lower nurse to patient ratios?
NurseFirst
At my hospital, we follow the national standards recommended by our organizations, i.e AWHONN for unit. Our hospital South Carolina didn't need a legislature or union to tell us that we get better patient outcomes by a 1:5-6 nurse patient ratio. Our Nursing V-P and CFO already determined the need and revised our FTE requirements without all the browbeating. We are formalizing a structure that nurses are involved in all aspect of hospital operations to improve patient care, research, education, and, yes, budget. Hope you will have the same input. :balloons:
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NurseGuy_in_06
276 Posts
I am AMAZED at the misconception that people have about unions. The bottom line is this: there is strength in numbers. When asked if I would join a nurse's union there are only 2 answers: YES and where do I sign.