For a while now I've been reading about the so called nursing shortage and today I read a thread that discusses this issue and the general opinion that the problem is the poor working environment, pay etc. So I can't help but wonder why we aren't organized. Surely if ALL of us were unionized we'd be in a better position to negotiate. I live in Denmark where 97% of all nurses are union members. Things are not perfect here, but better than the US I think.
So, what do all of you think? Why aren't we more organized? Seems like I've read somewhere that ca. 30% of american nurses are unionized?
Another thing to think about came from a friend who is a teacher. She is forced to be a member of a union which has completely the opposite political views and her dues are used to lobby for those views. I realize there are ways to opt out but you still pay dues and the people you pay to represent you don't agree with you.
I personally don't need to hire anyone to represent me. And I don't see that as divisive.
For those of you who dont believe in unions, you should go & read another thread on "exploitation". This nurse is an imigrant and the hospital is demanding their passport until the contract is through.
Dispicable behaviour from an employer. Tanatamount to slavery. Fortunately, this nurse had the wits to ask for advice from this site.
The definition of slavery is "The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household" This nurse is being treated as property if he submits his passport.
Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
For those of you who dont believe in unions, you should go & read another thread on "exploitation". This nurse is an imigrant and the hospital is demanding their passport until the contract is through.
Dispicable behaviour from an employer. Tanatamount to slavery. Fortunately, this nurse had the wits to ask for advice from this site.
The definition of slavery is "The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household" This nurse is being treated as property if he submits his passport.
I agree that it's despicable. However, that nurse is here working through an agency. That in itself doesn't make an argument for unions. I don't know of any unionized nursing agencies.
You made a previous statement that you thought all nurses should be unionized. Some of us don't feel it is needed *where we work.* How is that living in a fantasyland? Some of us are able to bargain with our employers without unions. You're making assumptions of a workforce that you haven't even joined yet based on one that you used to belong to. When I was an agency nurse, I had the opportunity to work at union and non-union hospitals. Let me tell you, in my area there was a big difference 'twixt the two. When you become a nurse, you will have the right to choose which one you want. That's a good thing. I don't want to be forced to join a union.
It also costs hospitals money to import nurses- do you think a third-world nurse has the financial capacity to come over here on their own? They get a lot of the same benefits as travel nurses working on contract, and their pay is the same as the other nurses. They're not cheap labor as you seem to think. Although, they are probably cheaper labor than union nurses.
I never made the blanket statement that all nurses should be unionized, someone else suggested that is the way I believe. What I beleive about unions and nursing can be summed up this way: You nor anyone else has the right to suggest that nurses do not have the right to form a union simply because nurses are part of a "higher calling". My reasons for going to nursing school are my own, as are yours. Companies go and get the "third world" employees and bring them over here. Why? Because hiring 10 nurses from another country may be expensive but it is a signal, a veiled threat, to the other nurses working at a hospital about what could happen. I HAVE SEEN IT FIRST HAND. A company will pay a lot of money short term to keep from paying you and others LONG TERM. If you don't want to be forced to join a union you will not have to BUT do not look down on those of us who do because you will directly benefit from our efforts.
Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
Having been on both sides of the issue (union and management) I can say FOR CERTAIN that if all of nursing was unionized it would make for better working conditions and pay. If anyone disagrees I would like to know because I would like to see if anyone has a reason for not joining a union that I have not heard before because I have heard it all, including being in manasgement meetings where the only topic was how to STOP a union from forming. What threat can management use to scare nurses away from forming a union? The hospitals cannot pack up and go to Mexico. They NEED us and know it but don't want us to know it.
Who's making blanket statements?
No one is cutting on anyone's personal pro-union choices. You wanted to hear some reasons from nurses who do not choose to join unions, and that's what you got.
Last I checked, we only had a handful of foreign nurse recruits where I work (mostly Filipino- darn good nurses, too). They were hired to allay a shortage, and are not cheaper than full time staff. Oh wait- they ARE full time staff, with benefits and all.
I agree that it's despicable. However, that nurse is here working through an agency. That in itself doesn't make an argument for unions. I don't know of any unionized nursing agencies.
Dont you have national unions? Are unions only affiliated with hospitals/institutions?
I have been anti-union all my life due to the fact I couldn't possibly walk off the job if the union demanded it.
However, I'm pretty sure that many of our licenses wouldn't be put at risk as they are being now if we were unionized. It may also bring back some of those licensed nurses who choose to work in a different field to nursing, alleviating the shortage problem. I'm sure the shortage problem in nursing perpetuates itself.
The only unionized nurses here in Colorado are with Kaiser Permanente. When I first graduated I interviewed with them but the salary was much lower than non-union jobs.
Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
Dont you have national unions? Are unions only affiliated with hospitals/institutions?
Sorry- I should clarify. When you are an agency nurse, you are considered an independent contractor. Therefore, you are considered somewhat as working for yourself.
Each state has a Nurses Association that has a PAC, and RNs can join if they want to. They deal with the broader political issues that face nurses, not issues at a single workplace.
No wonder we cannot unite! No wonder we are viewed as "eating our young." If you cannot agree to disagree on some issues as responsible, intelligent professionals then we do not deserve to be treated differently than we are now. Maybe in some areas hospital systems view nurses as expendable, but those hospitals may be the ones who find it necessary to recruit "foreign" nurses. But foreign nurses are nurses also. Possibly some hospitals do not pay well or offer exceptional benefits or treat everyone fairly. So what. We are not married to our institutions and our patients are not our children. Change if you can. No institution is all bad or all good. If you think that the bad outweighs the good you have two choices. Do something about it or accept it. Arguing among ourselves does not accomplish anything. Personally, I recognize that everyone's perception of any situation is not the same as mine and, maybe, they have a different set of circumstances which requires different interventions to achieve different outcomes - sound familiar. Use the "old-fashioned" nursing process. Assess, plan, intervene and reassess. Sounds a little bit like JACHO's Performance Improvement? Maybe we not only need to assess our working environment but our attitude as well.
Is there a list or something that shows which hospitals in your state are union/non union? I'm a student and graduate in May, but I'm planning on going back to AZ to work, I know AZ is a right-to-work state .... so does that mean that NO hospitals are unionized? Sorry I just don't know much about all this.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I don't know of one hospital here that is unionized. At least not in the Phoenix area.
Sorry- I should clarify. When you are an agency nurse, you are considered an independent contractor. Therefore, you are considered somewhat as working for yourself.
Each state has a Nurses Association that has a PAC, and RNs can join if they want to. They deal with the broader political issues that face nurses, not issues at a single workplace.
Bit different over here. Any nurse, including agency nurses, can join any appropriate national union & get representation from them if they need it. My union (I am in the Royal College of Nursing, as are most qualified nurses) works on two levels. The "top" level influence the government agenda and broader political issues. But it also works at the "lower" levels and has a very strong representation at a grass roots level. So any nurse who is being disciplined, whether that is for clinical reasons or employment reasons, has a right to representation at the disciplinary hearing from their union representative.
Can you get representation in this way if you are being disciplined for clinical or employment issues?
PAC?? Gizzaclue...thats a good Scouse (Liverpudlian) expression for "Give me a clue please"!!
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
Another thing to think about came from a friend who is a teacher. She is forced to be a member of a union which has completely the opposite political views and her dues are used to lobby for those views. I realize there are ways to opt out but you still pay dues and the people you pay to represent you don't agree with you.
I personally don't need to hire anyone to represent me. And I don't see that as divisive.
steph