Why do we do this?

MedicalLPN, LPN · Mar 29, 2011

I completely agree with you. It seems that are society has come to a point where death just simply is unacceptable as opposed to be being a part of life.

Sadly I'm sure there is some hospital executive somewhere who believes that to allow a patient to die a comfortable and peaceful death is "bad customer service".

LPNweezy · Mar 29, 2011

lol we have all been to that point, hun. :heartbeat

New1LT · Mar 29, 2011

Medicine has become a money practice instead of a human practice. People are almost begging for all of us to just let them go, but doctors and administrators want the envelope to be pushed to squeeze out a few more bucks. I had an 89 year old gentleman that had an extensive heart condition come in A&Ox3 with a 3rd degree block. The ER doc told him that he was going to need a pacemaker and the guy said to him very point blank "No I don't. I've lived my life and I am ready to go. This is not the life anybody should live. This is not living". The cardiologist came in and told the man the same thing at to which the pt stated again, "No you're not. I'm ready to go. Just leave me be". The cardiologist told him he would see him after surgery and he would thank him later. The man kept telling everyone no and the cardiologist said he would just sign the consent that he wasn't able to make his own decision. We all just looked at one another like he was crazy. But he ended up sending for the patient and putting the pacer in. We tried to advocate for the patient, but since he had noone to back him he was deemed incompetent. A variance was written, but the poor man got the pacer anyway. Sad what we are doing to our elder population. Who wants to grow old and live to be a 100 if you can't fend for yourself? Not me....

CCL RN, RN · Mar 29, 2011

Medicine has become a money practice instead of a human practice. People are almost begging for all of us to just let them go, but doctors and administrators want the envelope to be pushed to squeeze out a few more bucks. I had an 89 year old gentleman that had an extensive heart condition come in A&Ox3 with a 3rd degree block. The ER doc told him that he was going to need a pacemaker and the guy said to him very point blank "No I don't. I've lived my life and I am ready to go. This is not the life anybody should live. This is not living". The cardiologist came in and told the man the same thing at to which the pt stated again, "No you're not. I'm ready to go. Just leave me be". The cardiologist told him he would see him after surgery and he would thank him later. The man kept telling everyone no and the cardiologist said he would just sign the consent that he wasn't able to make his own decision. We all just looked at one another like he was crazy. But he ended up sending for the patient and putting the pacer in. We tried to advocate for the patient, but since he had noone to back him he was deemed incompetent. A variance was written, but the poor man got the pacer anyway. Sad what we are doing to our elder population. Who wants to grow old and live to be a 100 if you can't fend for yourself? Not me....

I would have stood in the doorway and blocked the pt from going. And I would have charted up a storm, including how competent the pt was using real quotes.

And I'd report that cardiologist so fast his head would spin.

Where's the OP?

oramar · Mar 29, 2011

I agree with CCL RN, that is quite a shocking story New1LT tells. It reminds me of an article I read somewhere. It was written by a prominent journalist. It was called, "How a pacemaker destroyed a family". In it she described how a pacemaker had been forced on her 79 year old father after he had repeatedly refused it. The daughter and author of the article had backed her father up in his refusal but did not realize that the surgeon would continue to press him when she left town. The wife had the POA and she and the patient both were confused when he signed the consent. The journalist was extremely bitter against the surgeon and named names. She felt the pacemaker gave her father a couple of horrible years of life that wrecked the family and killed her mother. He most likely would have died much more quickly and peacefully from the heart block the pacemaker was inserted to treat. Everyone was soooo worried about death panels a few years ago. My personal opinion is that the true problem is unnecessary and unwanted treatment that is sometimes forced on a patient and frequently misrepresented in it's ability to help. As previously mentioned the motive is money.

Isabelle49 · Mar 29, 2011

Medicine has become a money practice instead of a human practice. People are almost begging for all of us to just let them go, but doctors and administrators want the envelope to be pushed to squeeze out a few more bucks. I had an 89 year old gentleman that had an extensive heart condition come in A&Ox3 with a 3rd degree block. The ER doc told him that he was going to need a pacemaker and the guy said to him very point blank "No I don't. I've lived my life and I am ready to go. This is not the life anybody should live. This is not living". The cardiologist came in and told the man the same thing at to which the pt stated again, "No you're not. I'm ready to go. Just leave me be". The cardiologist told him he would see him after surgery and he would thank him later. The man kept telling everyone no and the cardiologist said he would just sign the consent that he wasn't able to make his own decision. We all just looked at one another like he was crazy. But he ended up sending for the patient and putting the pacer in. We tried to advocate for the patient, but since he had noone to back him he was deemed incompetent. A variance was written, but the poor man got the pacer anyway. Sad what we are doing to our elder population. Who wants to grow old and live to be a 100 if you can't fend for yourself? Not me....

A cardiologist did the same thing to my mother when she was 94. Unfortunately, my sister had power of attorney and he was able to really pull the wool over her eyes and get her to sign the consent. Mom died 6 weeks later, I think she had had a stroke not long before the pacemaker was placed. I haven't taken the time to contact him and let him know what I think, but in my old age, I am ready to start blowing the whistle on some of these docs, esp the ones who do not return phone calls related to patient problems.

Isabelle49 · Mar 29, 2011

Am going to have 'Do Not Resuscitate" tattooed on my chest, with my signature under it!

deemalt, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2011

Thanks for the post. I work in LTAC (long term acute care). We are in the business of not letting people go when their bodies are ready. Almost all of our patients are full code. They can't breath.. we trach em, they won't eat...they get a peg, they can't control their bowels...they get a flexiseal, gangrenous digits...amputate. It goes on and on. It is amazing how long you can keep someone alive with medications and procedures. These poor people endure so much in their last days.

I suspect that LTACs are in business strictly because family members and sometimes patients refuse to discuss death and dying. It is really a sad state of affairs and I predict more and more of these types of facilities in the future.

It should be something that patients discuss with their doctors and family members before the stuff hits the fan.

What do you think?

Chin up · Mar 29, 2011

Medicine has become a money practice instead of a human practice. People are almost begging for all of us to just let them go, but doctors and administrators want the envelope to be pushed to squeeze out a few more bucks. I had an 89 year old gentleman that had an extensive heart condition come in A&Ox3 with a 3rd degree block. The ER doc told him that he was going to need a pacemaker and the guy said to him very point blank "No I don't. I've lived my life and I am ready to go. This is not the life anybody should live. This is not living". The cardiologist came in and told the man the same thing at to which the pt stated again, "No you're not. I'm ready to go. Just leave me be". The cardiologist told him he would see him after surgery and he would thank him later. The man kept telling everyone no and the cardiologist said he would just sign the consent that he wasn't able to make his own decision. We all just looked at one another like he was crazy. But he ended up sending for the patient and putting the pacer in. We tried to advocate for the patient, but since he had noone to back him he was deemed incompetent. A variance was written, but the poor man got the pacer anyway. Sad what we are doing to our elder population. Who wants to grow old and live to be a 100 if you can't fend for yourself? Not me....

This is VERY DISTURBING...

*Posh* · Mar 29, 2011

Medicine has become a money practice instead of a human practice. People are almost begging for all of us to just let them go, but doctors and administrators want the envelope to be pushed to squeeze out a few more bucks. I had an 89 year old gentleman that had an extensive heart condition come in A&Ox3 with a 3rd degree block. The ER doc told him that he was going to need a pacemaker and the guy said to him very point blank "No I don't. I've lived my life and I am ready to go. This is not the life anybody should live. This is not living". The cardiologist came in and told the man the same thing at to which the pt stated again, "No you're not. I'm ready to go. Just leave me be". The cardiologist told him he would see him after surgery and he would thank him later. The man kept telling everyone no and the cardiologist said he would just sign the consent that he wasn't able to make his own decision. We all just looked at one another like he was crazy. But he ended up sending for the patient and putting the pacer in. We tried to advocate for the patient, but since he had noone to back him he was deemed incompetent. A variance was written, but the poor man got the pacer anyway. Sad what we are doing to our elder population. Who wants to grow old and live to be a 100 if you can't fend for yourself? Not me....

I have never heard of this until now. I am absolutely horrified. I can only imagine how helpless you felt.

oramar · Mar 29, 2011

By the way, there is currently an issue going on at a hospital in my area. An audit found a particular group of physicians were repeatedly doing unnecessary cardiac stent insertions. It was a all over the newspapers a few weeks ago. The physicians resigned, I was wondering if there will be any actions by the attorney general.