Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

Nurseismade RN · Feb 28, 2005

Hi there,

I noticed that you were once an Lpn. I am a teas test away from getting into the Lpn program. The reason I am going this route is because the Adn program is very competitive. I do however like you want to continue on to be a RN someday. How was the transition and how long did it take you? :)

nurseinschooling · Feb 28, 2005

hey I am 14 years old and wanting to be a nurse, currentally I am not sure what to study, is there any advice out there from nurses who are doing well.

I would love to hear about life as a nurse as well this is something I have wanted to do as far back as I can remember.

nursemeow · Feb 28, 2005

Good topic.. as usual... I am an ADN.. I am studying now for the BSN and finally a MSN in emergency med. My feeling is that an ADN and BSN have the "minimal competency" for the NCLEX-RN and will both end up as an RN. The RN, BSN has much more theory, cultural knowledge, research skills, and pharm.. than the ADN and I feel should be compensated for that. I have only taken one class towards my BSN and already I have learned alot which will help me be a better nurse. Anyone who says the B in BSN is for you know what has not taken that path. However, I would never devalue the ADN (me) EVER because it was a hard road and lets not forget that it is not JUST 2 years for the ADN.. I needed about a year and 1/2 of just pre-reqs to start... LOVE YA ALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DelightRN · Feb 28, 2005

Hi DelightRN,
In California, the major hospitals are run by unions. That's the reason why a lot of RNs do not jump around from hospital to hospital if they are not part of the same union. They would have to start over in seniority. One my colleagues at Stanford University Hospital says that's the reason she stayed at Stanford.
Are you saying that Baltimore hospitals are not unionized? Is Kennedy Krieger Institute (where you work) a non-union shop? If so, that's good to know. Do you know if Johns Hopkins Hospital union or not? Thanks. It's nice to get more information.
Smile123

Ah. I've never worked in California so I didn't know that. Here in Baltimore, each facility is individual, but I'd venture a guess that the majority are non-union. Out of all the RN jobs I've had in MD, I've never worked at a unionized facility. My facility is non-union, I'm pretty sure JHH is also non-union, but I'd have to get back to you on that with some more concrete information.

nurseinschooling · Feb 28, 2005

I have heard that canada is a bad place to be a nurse? also that it would be better for me to be schooled in canada than move to amercia to get experience, and get more money there. Any thoughts?

begalli · Feb 28, 2005

Hi DelightRN,
In California, the major hospitals are run by unions. That's the reason why a lot of RNs do not jump around from hospital to hospital if they are not part of the same union. They would have to start over in seniority. One my colleagues at Stanford University Hospital says that's the reason she stayed at Stanford.

I'm in the same area as you smile123. I know lots and lots and lots of nurses who work at more than one hospital. Generally, they will work at thier "primary" hospital and belong to that hospital's union and get their benefits through the "primary" hospital. The second job is usually per diem.

Also, Stanford has an awesome union. And, it's a real good place to practice nursing. I bet if you ask your colleague, she's staying there for more reasons than just the union.

as a side note...Stanford new grads fresh out of school start at $33.48/hr with full excellent benefits. In April this year that rate goes up to $35.87, and on 4/1/06 it further goes up to $38.38. That is base pay, doesn't include diffs. 99.9% of new grads move up to Staff Nurse II, step 1 after six months.

http://www.crona.org/crona%20payscale%2004-04%20to%2003-07.htm

If you're working or planning to work in the Bay Area, I would demand more than $20-28/hr if I were you.

over and out :)

ratchit · Feb 28, 2005

Good topic.. as usual... I am an ADN.. I am studying now for the BSN and finally a MSN in emergency med. My feeling is that an ADN and BSN have the "minimal competency" for the NCLEX-RN and will both end up as an RN. The RN, BSN has much more theory, cultural knowledge, research skills, and pharm.. than the ADN and I feel should be compensated for that. I have only taken one class towards my BSN and already I have learned alot which will help me be a better nurse. Anyone who says the B in BSN is for you know what has not taken that path. However, I would never devalue the ADN (me) EVER because it was a hard road and lets not forget that it is not JUST 2 years for the ADN.. I needed about a year and 1/2 of just pre-reqs to start... LOVE YA ALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know if I would agree that this is a good topic- it comes up every couple of months, gets heated, gets very off topic, people get insulted, etc etc etc.

BSN and ADN grads are both RNs. I have compared several ADN and BSN programs and found a couple that had a one or two class difference in nursing subjects between the two programs. The differences were not in cultural nursing or pharmacology- I took just as much math, chemistry, and pharmacology as a BSN grad. The only additional NUR division class I could really see between my ADN program and several BSN programs was a class in Nursing Management. I do not think a class in nursing management helps a new grad be a better nurse because they can't and should not be managers as new grads. ADN programs study just as much of the nursing knowledge- they just skip more of the non-nursing classes. And non-nursing studies should not justify a higher compensation for being a nurse.

ADN and BSN grads take the same boards. They do the same work, they bring the same revenue in to the hospital, they provide the same patient care. I do not see anything that justifies a pay difference if they do the same thing. Women complain that men get paid more for the same jobs, saying that we want similar pay for similar work, but then we shoot ourselves in the foot by saying we want different groups of women to be paid differently for performing the same work. (I know not all nurses are women, but >90% still are.)

ADN nurses who go on for a BSN are a totally different story. If you look at their ADN requirements and then the ADN-BSN bridge requirements, it totals up to a LOT more than just going for a BSN. And much of it is actually nursing related coursework and clinicals. I can see calling that a different degree and paying more for the extra nursing knowledge they bring to the table. But I cannot see why someone who took more classes in American History and Comparative Literature is worth more than the nurse working next to them who knows just as much about nursing.

We need to concentrate on demanding more respect and better compensation for nurses overall- on insisting that the professional care given by RNs is worth more- not fighting amongst ourselves about whether one RN is worth $.50 an hour more than another for doing the same job. Consistency and solidarity will get us much further than bickering amongst ourselves.

Nursferatu · Feb 28, 2005

I am currently in school to make nursing my second career. I do not have a degree (in nursing or any other field). I am very successful in corporate America and because of my experience and work ethic I have always been able to negotiate a good salary. I don't know what it will be like when I graduate with an Associate's degree in nursing but I have learned that if you don't do your research and if you don't realize your own value in what you can offer to your employer, no HR/recruiter is going to go out of their way to give you loads of money & fringes! KNOW YOUR WORTH and NEGOTIATE! The worse they can do is counter offer!

zenman · Feb 28, 2005

BSN and ADN grads are both RNs.

Add diploma grads in there also. At least we can not only argue about the merits of each of 3 entry levels, but also about who graduated from the best schools. Poor MDs can only argue about who went to the best schools!

I have compared several ADN and BSN programs and found a couple that had a one or two class difference in nursing subjects between the two programs.

Please show me the links to those schools. As an ex-teacher, I'd like to see them.

I do not think a class in nursing management helps a new grad be a better nurse because they can't and should not be managers as new grads.

You really don't get it do you? What is the driving force behind healthcare? Clinical nursing?? Does "management" impact not only the unit you work on, but the entire hospital? Take it all the way down to your level...should you have any knowledge of what is happening in management in order to effective work in your position...or should you just be ignorant? Do you "manage" your time, your patients, LPNs, CNAs? Starting to catch on now?

ADN programs study just as much of the nursing knowledge- they just skip more of the non-nursing classes. And non-nursing studies should not justify a higher compensation for being a nurse.

I think the person with the most liberal arts courses should make the most money...but some just can't figure out why!

ADN and BSN grads take the same boards.

Everyone takes the same driver's license test also.

They do the same work, they bring the same revenue in to the hospital, they provide the same patient care.

Are nurses revenue producing or an expense?

I do not see anything that justifies a pay difference if they do the same thing.

I can pick out all 3 types of grads almost 100% of the time by watching them on the floor.

We need to concentrate on demanding more respect and better compensation for nurses overall- on insisting that the professional care given by RNs is worth more- not fighting amongst ourselves about whether one RN is worth $.50 an hour more than another for doing the same job. Consistency and solidarity will get us much further than bickering amongst ourselves.

In most businesses...not counting the motivated, street smart individual...who gets the most money...the one with lessor education or the one with more? One way to respect as a professional means having what is considered the norm for professional education by other professionals. The degree bickering will not stop until there is one entry level...you don't see it among MDs do you? You would have to ask the expert golfer in the group about whether or not there is a female issue involved...I'm not going there!! :chuckle

smile123 · Feb 28, 2005

I'm in the same area as you smile123. I know lots and lots and lots of nurses who work at more than one hospital. Generally, they will work at thier "primary" hospital and belong to that hospital's union and get their benefits through the "primary" hospital. The second job is usually per diem.
Also, Stanford has an awesome union. And, it's a real good place to practice nursing. I bet if you ask your colleague, she's staying there for more reasons than just the union.
as a side note...Stanford new grads fresh out of school start at $33.48/hr with full excellent benefits. In April this year that rate goes up to $35.87, and on 4/1/06 it further goes up to $38.38. That is base pay, doesn't include diffs. 99.9% of new grads move up to Staff Nurse II, step 1 after six months.
http://www.crona.org/crona%20payscale%2004-04%20to%2003-07.htm
If you're working or planning to work in the Bay Area, I would demand more than $20-28/hr if I were you.
over and out :)

Thanks for the info on the new grad program at Stanford! I really appreciate it. And to all of you who are wondering why the starting base is "so high" it's because the cost of living in the San Francisco Bay Area is high too. A 1 BR condo costs $300K and a 3BR/2BA fixer upper/small house costs over $500K! :uhoh3:

Smike123 :)

nursbee04 · Feb 28, 2005

I do not think a class in nursing management helps a new grad be a better nurse because they can't and should not be managers as new grads. ADN programs study just as much of the nursing knowledge- they just skip more of the non-nursing classes. And non-nursing studies should not justify a higher compensation for being a nurse.
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I had a nursing management class in my ADN program (yes, it was a full semester and not combined into another class...probably not as intensive as a BSN program, but still) and I think it was very valuable. A few months after getting my RN I was charge nurse on my unit on a regular basis, and everything I learned about prioritization, organization and special issues in nsg helped out a LOT. Nursing management is valuable to every nurse, not just potential nurse managers.

Jamesdotter · Feb 28, 2005

Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

I like the way my facility (part of a BSN-degree granting institution) handled it. As a BSN grad, I was paid at a one-step higher rate than the ASN and diploma nurses. Of course, our opinion was if they granted the BSNs, then they should recognize them!