Some backdrop: I went to a traditional 4 year school for my first degree then went to a community college for my associate degree in nursing. While I worked as a nurse, I received my BSN online from Penn State University, which is a flagship state school in PA which a very good academic reputation. It is currently the highest ranked school in the country that offers a totally online RN to BSN option.
My question is, in contrast to attending a highly reputable, cheaper state school, why do many associate degree nurses opt to complete their BSN online at for profit universities like Kaplan, Phoenix, Chamberlain, and Grand Canyon? The for-profits are way more expensive and encourage you to take out loans. Those schools cost more, are less reputable, and aren't any more convenient than the online public state school options. They are also notorious for piranha-like, harassing recruiting tactics and baracuda-style collection practices. So for what purpose..? To what end..?
I recognize that a large portion of the nursing world does not care where you got your nursing degree. But, a significant portion does. One of the most frequent questions I get asked by my colleagues in a new unit is "where did you go to school?" I would be horrified and embarrassed if I had to reply with "University of Phoenix," "Kaplan," or "The Grand Canyon." So what piece of information am I missing here? Why are those schools so attractive?
Actually the question, as indicated by thread title, is at heart about people choosing for profit institutions. The answer, as others have provided to you, is that we often work far harder at these schools. This happens because the schools have to prove to people like you that they are graduating people from one of the best programs out there. And since that was the topic my reply was if you have not experienced it stop with the assumptions about the programs. Why even discuss it if you have never attended and never plan to attend.
Actually the question, as indicated by thread title, is at heart about people choosing for profit institutions. The answer, as others have provided to you, is that we often work far harder at these schools. This happens because the schools have to prove to people like you that they are graduating people from one of the best programs out there. And since that was the topic my reply was if you have not experienced it stop with the assumptions about the programs. Why even discuss it if you have never attended and never plan to attend.
And you're upset about that? You made the decision to go to a for-profit school. If telling everyone you worked harder for your degree makes you feel better, then do so. At the end of the day anyone who passed NCLEX upon completion of their program worked hard and satisfied their end goal of becoming an RN. To say they didn't work as hard as you sounds like a personal problem.
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
I attended UI Urbana undergrad. Grad school at Columbia in Chicago. Moved to Orlando and started working for University of Phoenix. Graduated with the MHA. And as part of my severance from lay off I finish my MAED/Adult Education and Training in August. Then to nursing school.
I have worked harder than any student at state school for my degrees. I have a higher gpa than all the students in my classes at the community college where I attended for my pre reqs. I have a 3.94 in Valencia College and 3.9 at University of Phoenix. I am a finance counselor in an ER and I assure you I am on top of it in six months than the nurses and some of the staff who have worked there for more than five years.
I'd say it is best not to make an assumption about something you have not personally experienced. And if you can attend an earn your degrees for less then consider yourself fortunate.
You aren't helping the "argument" when you say you are "on top of it in six months than the nurses". Um....you aren't a nurse and doing a completely different job. You can't compare how well you do your job to how well an RN does her job.
I've been a student a a for-profit....worked out great for me. There are ways to make a decent argument...you missed the train on that one. .
My opinion may not count for much, because I've been out of school for a very long time.
Sounds to me like the for-profit schools are more interested in producing competent nurses. A university will not close down if their nursing program is weak...it can always get more funds and the reputation of the University has already been established for years on end. Neither of these are true of present day for-profit schools.
Only a State University could afford to teach such "nonsense" as how the "gay, lesbian, transgender community change our health care delivery" (which you will learn as a nurse, anyway). A University is invariably steeped in politics within and without. Also there are many dignitaries to please and apease.
A for-profit school has one goal...to turn out able and respectable practitioners of whatever they teach. Otherwise they will certainly go under. Along with the convenience they offer their students, they must maintain a certain reputation in their field, to compete with other similar schools and Universities.
Back in the day... I attended both a diploma school of nursing and The University of Colorado (as well as a couple of other Universities for some classes). I can see that Universities have not changed much, and the diploma school was very b and m, since the Internet wasn't available at that time. My most intense and valuable education came from my diploma school, which was associated with a hospital and not primarily for profit. However, I would liken the diploma school much more to today's for-profit schools. I think their main objective was to produce nurses (which were in short supply at the time), for their hospital and others in the community.
I currently attend a for profit school in Arizona. I like it because it is year round and I will be getting my degree a year and a half earlier then if I would have attended ASU. I have a bachelors degree in Molecular Biology from California (I am from Cali), and I think I like the for profit school just as much, if not better, then the state university I attended. At my school the program is still a little new so there are kinks that still need to be worked out, but overall I feel like I'm getting what I pay for. Our staff at my school is very friendly and always trying to help if we ever come across a problem. Also, we receive free tutoring as well so that is a huge help for people falling behind. It's not easier because nursing school is in no way easier. Everyone has to pass the NCLEX at the end of the program if they want their license to practice as a nurse, if there was a real problem and they were "just passing" people there would be no way for them to still be accredited.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
A for-profit school has one goal...to turn out able and respectable practitioners of whatever they teach. Otherwise they will certainly go under.
Another goal of a for-profit school is to generate profits. It is the profit margin that enables these schools to stay in business and keep shareholders appeased.
I have attended a mixture of nonprofit and for-profit schools, so I am not attempting to shout any particular type of entity down. However, the for-profit school's goal is to make a profit.
the NCLEX pass rate, without the graduation rate is not particularly useful information.
Well the only thing that I have to add to this foolishness is the fact that I am currently attending a for profit school in an BSN-to-RN program. My school currently has a 98 percent pass rate for the nclex and when people see me in my school uniform I'm proud not ashamed because numbers never lie and our record speaks for itself. Sit on that.
I actually have my BSN from UOP and my MSN from Walden. I decided to do these schools so I could progress at my own rate and not be locked into a schedule where if something happened it may be 2 years till I could re-take a class in the rotation. Both of these programs were rigorous and I had a state university faculty member who told me my text books were the same ones being used here in Pennsylvania at the traditional university nursing program. I believe you get out what you put into a program and it does not matter if it is online or brick and mortar school if you apply yourself . There were people at UOP who failed out because they did not do the work and the work was not easy but took research and time. As for Walden my practicum requirement equated to me working my full time job and then doing 6-8 hours a night on clinical with my preceptor to get my required hours and projects in on time. I am upset that you would think my knowledge level and skill level have suffered due to online learning.
" Another goal of a for-profit school is to generate profits. It is the profit margin that enables these schools to stay in business and keep shareholders appeased."
Of course, that's what "for-profit" means! But, they will certainly not profit if the school turns out inferior nurses and gains a bad reputation. The responsibility for that rests pretty much on the instructors. Even expensive advertising on the part of the school, won't help, if clients do not get what they need. In a way, the school must be their own advertisement every day. A for-profit institution must, of necessity, accomodate the students. Thus instructors are more likely to be available to help students and even provide free tutoring (as a previous poster related) As for shareholders, they will be satisfied if the students, and therefore the business, does well. Pleasing the shareholders is a result of running a good business.
Nothing wrong with "non-profit" schools (as in a state university), we couldn't do without them. But instructors there, can afford to have a lot less personal investment in what they do. (I'm not saying that they necessarily do). And if they have tenure, they need not worry about losing their job. Even if they don't... there's almost no chance that their University is going to close for lack of funds! The University Nursing program is not going to be hurt by lack of advertising, nor cope with taxes owed, nor other expenses normally required in running a business. Also because the University is well established in the community and has other colleges in connection with it, it does not depend so much on it's nursing program to win a reputation.
I do not think that "non-profit" is any more "noble" than "for-profit". . It is not an emotional or idealogical issue with me. I only care about the quality of what is provided to the client (student, in this case) and at what cost.
So what if someone wants to pay for education? At least at a for profit school, they listen to your complaints unlike at a CC or UC ? Besides at the end of the day everyone, no matter what school has to pass Nclex, and let's just say, passing nclex was a fluke. How does this bad nurse from a profit school keep a job with no skills or nursing knowledge??? I mean non profit or for profit schools all teach the same things. Yes the profit schools take everyone but do they all finish and pass nclex??
I completely understand where you're coming from. I attend Houston Baptist University here in Houston Texas. I also don't understand why anyone would consider a for-profit school. Of all my nursing buddies I only know two that went to a for profit school, and it was honestly out of desperation. Their GPA's were 3.1 and 2.5. I tried to convince my friend with a 2.5, whom I volunteered with at a hospital, to repeat her courses and get her GPA up; we were both applying for nursing schools around the same time. She did consider it, but when she visited Chamberlain, she gave up on improving her GPA and was actually accepted in their SON. Now, A GPA is so damn important; It shows commitment! The classes we all took prior to our Nursing degree were the sweetest pieces of cake compared to Nursing classes! It's true, we ALL know this. Why the HELL would they accept people with such low GPA's? It's ridiculous! I can only narrow it down to it being a money issue.
For profit schools want your money. If you do/did great in those school, then good for you, really; that's awesome, but why not go big and get your degree from a school you can be proud of? At the end of the day, no one is going to take a for profit school more serious than a reputable university/college, and that's the cold, hard truth.
And as for all the people who attended for profit universities on this post, calm down. Every time this subject is brought, all of a sudden it turn into a hostile conversation. You guys should have recognized the criticism that came with your for-profit-company-school before you went through with it, now deal with it.
ajjones1322
33 Posts
Actually the question, as indicated by thread title, is at heart about people choosing for profit institutions. The answer, as others have provided to you, is that we often work far harder at these schools. This happens because the schools have to prove to people like you that they are graduating people from one of the best programs out there. And since that was the topic my reply was if you have not experienced it stop with the assumptions about the programs. Why even discuss it if you have never attended and never plan to attend.