Some backdrop: I went to a traditional 4 year school for my first degree then went to a community college for my associate degree in nursing. While I worked as a nurse, I received my BSN online from Penn State University, which is a flagship state school in PA which a very good academic reputation. It is currently the highest ranked school in the country that offers a totally online RN to BSN option.
My question is, in contrast to attending a highly reputable, cheaper state school, why do many associate degree nurses opt to complete their BSN online at for profit universities like Kaplan, Phoenix, Chamberlain, and Grand Canyon? The for-profits are way more expensive and encourage you to take out loans. Those schools cost more, are less reputable, and aren't any more convenient than the online public state school options. They are also notorious for piranha-like, harassing recruiting tactics and baracuda-style collection practices. So for what purpose..? To what end..?
I recognize that a large portion of the nursing world does not care where you got your nursing degree. But, a significant portion does. One of the most frequent questions I get asked by my colleagues in a new unit is "where did you go to school?" I would be horrified and embarrassed if I had to reply with "University of Phoenix," "Kaplan," or "The Grand Canyon." So what piece of information am I missing here? Why are those schools so attractive?
Well you do need to do your research if you are spouting off, what you assume, are facts. Show us where you see that GCU is 80k for an RN-BSN or any other online school.
As for your decisions, I have no idea what you are talking about. All I said, was you are being very judgmental concerning online schools, when you said yourself, in another thread, you have considered it. You will face the same narrow-mindedness that we are seeing now. So if you don't want to change that mindset yourself, be prepared to defend it, just like you will have to defend your ADN degree.
Edited to add, that in GCU, one must always defend their facts with research based facts. If you say that the school is 80K, then be prepared to defend your argument.
I was not referring to GCU. I don't think I even mentioned GCU on my post anywhere. However I have heard of schools like chamberlain that have ridiculous tuition costs for a nursing degree. I admit I haven't really done "my homework" because I have no intentions of attending such a school. I don't have to. I didn't even know chamberlain was strictly an online school? I wasn't referring even refering to online schools, just for profits in general. Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but consider it made.
I see openyourmind and houstonrhopeful's points. On the one hand, it hurts us professionally to have arguments over whose degree is more legit. We see it in the area of associate degree vs BSN and now also for-profit vs non-profit. However, I could see some arguing that the rivalry makes for a more competitive academic atmosphere. Look at Caribbean medical schools for example. Medical schools in the Caribbean are notorious for being last resorts for Americans who couldn't quite make the cutoff for admission to most stateside medical schools. These doctors come back to the USA to complete their residency and are often looked down on by peers. It creates an atmosphere of tension.
Also, why is it in nursing we are accepting of for profit degree programs while you wouldn't ever see an online pharmacist? A lot of pharmacy school is lecture -- so why can't a couple years of the pharm D. be online? You could make the same argument for some of MD school.
My friend is a nurse traveler and a patient complained to the manager after her shift, because she told him she completed her degree at the Grand Canyon. and I don't think he realized that she was licensed prior to doing so. There's a negative perception of the online schools which is also why I asked people volunteer for them.
Chamberlain became for profit when the long standing hospital based program was bought. This was because the hospital was struggling. The tuition at least in regards to the St. Louis campus has remained competitive if not cheaper than other BSN 4 year programs. From being a current student, I can attest to the rigors of the program as they continue to hold up to the tradition of nursing education pre by out. I have had multiple class mates drop or fail. It is not a pay and pass program.
The nurses we have met at different clinical sites have been amazed that we have 12hr days for clinical throughout the whole program, unlike any of their schools.
Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
I see openyourmind and houstonrhopeful's points. On the one hand, it hurts us professionally to have arguments over whose degree is more legit. We see it in the area of associate degree vs BSN and now also for-profit vs non-profit. However, I could see some arguing that the rivalry makes for a more competitive academic atmosphere. Look at Caribbean medical schools for example. Medical schools in the Caribbean are notorious for being last resorts for Americans who couldn't quite make the cutoff for admission to most stateside medical schools. These doctors come back to the USA to complete their residency and are often looked down on by peers. It creates an atmosphere of tension.
Also, why is it in nursing we are accepting of for profit degree programs while you wouldn't ever see an online pharmacist? A lot of pharmacy school is lecture -- so why can't a couple years of the pharm D. be online? You could make the same argument for some of MD school.
My friend is a nurse traveler and a patient complained to the manager after her shift, because she told him she completed her degree at the Grand Canyon. and I don't think he realized that she was licensed prior to doing so. There's a negative perception of the online schools which is also why I asked people volunteer for them.
And I have a co-worker who is in THE top MSN program in my state and graduated from the top 5 nursing schools in the U.S. You can't believe the pt's that fire her. It has nothing to do with education, but everything to do with arrogance and pt perception.
I swear you must be laughing, thinking you are stirring the pot, while you make these outrageous assumptions. I won't even comment on the pharmacy/MD piece
Maybe I will believe what you say and take it more seriously, but you still cannot get the school name correct and obviously thought it was inside a Nat'l park.
Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
Openminded person:
Suddenly you are backing away stating that GCU is a crap school and now targeting Chamberlain, however, you then mention all non-profit schools suck. Your post is all over the place and it sounds to me like the kitchen is feeling a tad too hot for your liking, LOL.
However, I'm glad you don't have to resort to an online school (rolling eyes) even though the ANA and my Nat'l organization endorse GCU. Thank God we live in a country where we can make our own choices and we can advance anywhere we choose and take advantage of what our education offers us.
Many of us don't need Prof's spoon feeding us information. We are grown adults that can read, write and decipher theory on our own without face-face contact, but again, we don't owe anyone an explanation.
Anyway, I digress,
You want to know my point in my previous posts??
1) You assume we are at GCU because we "have to". Many of excel at our careers, and have impressive resumes. I posted my highlights in a previous thread. I will not belabor it again. Go read for kicks and giggles. Those of us that chose GCU did so for the academic standards that this private Christian school offered. I chose it over a state university, as did many of us. A coworker who chose the other route, travels up to 7 hours one way just to check in at her state university is doing what is best for her yet we both respect the others decision and support each other.
2) Since you are only a wee student or wee student wannabe, you obviously do not understand nursing in general. Nurses do not wear their degrees on their sleeves or have a blinkie pin that says ADN, or BSN. I have no idea what my coworkers background are, and most likely neither will you. What you will know about your coworkers is how well they respond in a code, or crashing situation, if they help you during a busy shift and if they have your back. So beware of calling any nurse a loser because of their academic choice, because they may be your current manager or future leader . Who knows, a Chamberlain or GCU nurse may save your a$$ one day.
3) Lastly, change your handle. You are not even a nurse yet you sit and bash schools that you know nothing about. I'm sure there are plenty of BSN nurses around you, calling you a loser because you are choosing the ADN route.
4) It is sad you are unwilling to educate yourself on schools, nursing and such, before you spout "facts". You may want to change your handle to narrow-minded one, instead because you definitely are narrow-minded.
I'm done with this thread because it's boring and it's like arguing with a small child. I have better things to do, such as write an executive summary for another work project. GCU has prepared me well, thank goodness .
Gotta go feed my donkey. Those daily treks down to the GCU School of Nursing and Health Care professions at the bottom of THE Grand Canyon, make him hungry :roflmao:.
Have fun dodging Chamberlain nurses. I'm sure you will be hearing from them soon!!
Anyway, apparently people have no right to an opinion. I personally would not attend a for-profit school, nor would I recommend a friend to. It doesn't matter what school, I just wouldn't. Who cares? This subject is truly subjective.
I just want to put out there that I think some of the university is located in or around the Grand Canyon. We get recruiters calling our floor looking for some of our nurses who filled out inquiries and it does say on the caller ID that the location is "Grand Canyon" and it's the university when you pick up the phone. So SOMEONE is calling from in or around that area, maybe a satellite? So you may be wrong about that.
I just want to put out there that I think some of the university is located in or around the Grand Canyon. We get recruiters calling our floor looking for some of our nurses who filled out inquiries and it does say on the caller ID that the location is "Grand Canyon" and it's the university when you pick up the phone. So SOMEONE is calling from the Grand Canyon. So you may be wrong about that.
I would like to add that I generally frown on the practices of some for-profit schools. However; I encourage everyone to evaluate the costs and quality as well as convenience of a variety of programs. When it comes to initial licensure, I just can't see the wisdom of paying $40-60,000 a year especially for the ADN.
When it comes to the RN to BSN though, the stakes are not generally as high unless you are still struggling with new grad issues; by that I mean that if you are still trying to get into acute care or a specialty and are being held back by lack of BSN. In those cases you may need to be more careful as you will be less financially stable as well as future employers being more attentive to your immediate scholastic history as your work history may not yet be strong enough to get their attention.
Most of the push in my area is simply for more BSNs, and as long as the school is accredited, doesn't really matter. Well, I will say this. A local children's hospital has a HIGHLY competitive new grad RN residency. They do seem to give preference to graduates of a local well-regarded private university.
As to why nurse choose for profit schools? The major reason is probably because they judge this to be an easier path. Before y'all rip me up, hear me out. Some for-profit schools aren't that much more expensive than State schools. Especially if one figures in that every school has different standards on what credits they will allow one to transfer in; the for-profit may allow more, which in the end saves the student thousands of dollars in tuition, besides the convenience (my time is worth something to me anyway) of not having to re-do those credits.
Also, for-profit schools can be tremendously accommodating to their students in an effort to keep them as students; State schools, maybe not so much. My coworkers talk with me about their attempts to go back to school as they know I successfully completed a program last year. I've always thought State universities have great programs; on paper, they are some of the cheapest around and can usually be completed in half to one year. The stories I am hearing from them trying to deal with admissions and the counseling office are extremely discouraging; can't find records, multiple conflicting stories from multiple advisers, and on and on.
If one also considers that many for-profits have partnership agreements with hospitals, encouraging their nurses to use them, offering discounts to said schools and tuition reimbursement, it's not that insane that many nurses go with for-profit schools.
To be honest, when I started my RN to BSN program, I thought my school was for-profit; turns out they are really non-profit but I didn't find that out until I was almost finished. I had my reasons, I knew another student who would be starting at the same time and I knew I would have the invaluable support of a live study partner I felt I needed after being out of school 20 years. I was willing to pay extra for that. Turns out my program was only about $3,000 more than the cheapest program I could find when I researched RN to BSN programs.
Thanks TiffyRN for actually showing the differences with logical reasons, and making a clear point, without resorting to name-calling or ranting with no aim. What a breath of fresh air!
Sadly I only know of one school that has ridiculous tuition in my area (about 20-25k per semester) that students may see as a perk because they have their own hospital. Would I pay that amount of money for a BSN degree? Not a chance. But hey, different strokes for different folks. This "loser" is trying to finish school with little to no debt.
I just want to put out there that I think some of the university is located in or around the Grand Canyon. We get recruiters calling our floor looking for some of our nurses who filled out inquiries and it does say on the caller ID that the location is "Grand Canyon" and it's the university when you pick up the phone. So SOMEONE is calling from in or around that area, maybe a satellite? So you may be wrong about that.
Okay, I know I said I was "done", but this cannot go unaddressed. It's called CALLER ID. The college is called Grand Canyon University, so when they call you, it shows up as GRAND CANYON (they couldn't fit the rest on that tiny little screen on the phone). Like, if I called you, it would say "PrismRN". Good gracious, I'm almost embarrassed for you, will you please just Google-Map it and be done with this already? Grand Canyon National Park is in the very NW corner of AZ, borders Utah & Nevada, and is a four hour drive from Phoenix, Arizona (in the southern third of AZ) where the 65 yr old B&M GCU campus is located.
You just keep making my point for me: People should not repeat things that they don’t know for sure (which is how this thread began), and aren’t willing to do a
. Who knows, a Chamberlain or GCU nurse may save your a$$ one day. 
because it's boring and it's like arguing with a small child. I have better things to do, such as write an executive summary for another work project. GCU has prepared me well, thank goodness 
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openyourmind
90 Posts
I was not referring to GCU. I don't think I even mentioned GCU on my post anywhere. However I have heard of schools like chamberlain that have ridiculous tuition costs for a nursing degree. I admit I haven't really done "my homework" because I have no intentions of attending such a school. I don't have to. I didn't even know chamberlain was strictly an online school? I wasn't referring even refering to online schools, just for profits in general. Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but consider it made.