Some backdrop: I went to a traditional 4 year school for my first degree then went to a community college for my associate degree in nursing. While I worked as a nurse, I received my BSN online from Penn State University, which is a flagship state school in PA which a very good academic reputation. It is currently the highest ranked school in the country that offers a totally online RN to BSN option.
My question is, in contrast to attending a highly reputable, cheaper state school, why do many associate degree nurses opt to complete their BSN online at for profit universities like Kaplan, Phoenix, Chamberlain, and Grand Canyon? The for-profits are way more expensive and encourage you to take out loans. Those schools cost more, are less reputable, and aren't any more convenient than the online public state school options. They are also notorious for piranha-like, harassing recruiting tactics and baracuda-style collection practices. So for what purpose..? To what end..?
I recognize that a large portion of the nursing world does not care where you got your nursing degree. But, a significant portion does. One of the most frequent questions I get asked by my colleagues in a new unit is "where did you go to school?" I would be horrified and embarrassed if I had to reply with "University of Phoenix," "Kaplan," or "The Grand Canyon." So what piece of information am I missing here? Why are those schools so attractive?
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
Many of My Coworkers went through the online for profit schools. There were two main reasons as to why they chose this route. First is because the totally online programs allow you to self pace, you could drop down to full time or one class at a time whenever you wanted. Most importantly, it also means they could work and not have to worry about driving to a physical school. They could do their school work in the comfort of their own home in their underwear if they wanted. The Second reason was the soft understanding that many of these for profit school such as Pheonix and GCU are a "you pay, you pass" system. My Coworkers brag about how laughable the discussions and assignments are, absolutely easy and stress free. Even if they miss assignments, they can just ask for an extension and if the instructor does not comply they go straight to the dean. My aunt works for Pheonix, she was told by the dean she could not fail certain people, because they were paying on time.
In the end of it all it comes down to a few things. Look around, does a BSN increase your scope of practice enough that it makes a real difference? In most states a BSN and ADN have the exact same scope. Why would you want to be inconvenienced with physical classes, added stress of inflexible schools, and extended length till completion.
I know of one coworker who went from ADN to BSN in 12 months via GCU. Most state university programs here are on a semester system, such as falll/spring/fall. Doing the State University program would take about a year and a half. Doing the online for profit system is about 1 year.
As for cost, my BSN in a state school cost about $11,000 for tuition alone. The cost for GCU in my area is $15,500. Once you factor in time saved in the for profit online system it all comes out the same.
No one in my hospital cares about where your degree of nursing comes from. Our director has his MBA from GCU. Our DON got her masters from GCU.
I try not to believe in the hype of State Vs. For-Profit. Its all the same scam. The for profits are just more honest about their scam, they know how the game works and provide a service we want. The state system tries to sell you the idea that State is better because they are a state school etc.
Were all grown here, I just want to get the job done. That is all that matters.
I always smile at these posts as what college or university is completely altruistic and not for profit! Get a grip! Higher education is a business as is healthcare.
And...I've been an APN for 8+ years, a nurse for 20+ years and in four states, multiple facilities I've never been asked where I went to school except to ask what degree did I receive?
For the record, I attended a community college in Las Vegas for an LPN, a private college in Indianapolis for an ADN, University of Phoenix for a BSN and MSN, and a central IL college for two post-MSN certificates.
And...because I'm older than dirt, the first few degrees were all on-campus as it was before the internet - lol
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I always smile at these posts as what college or university is completely altruistic and not for profit! Get a grip! Higher education is a business as is healthcare.
This! Every school is technically for-profit; otherwise, education would be free. Some are just more open about it. I attended Walden for my MSN; my BSN is from a traditional B&M college. I spent much less for my MSN than I did for my BSN. First of all, my hospital has an affiliation with Walden which comes with a 10% discount on tuition- right there is a savings plus validation from the hospital. Second, the online option really was the only way for me to go- between working 5 days a week plus having to take call, resulting in a completely unpredictable schedule, there was no way I could guarantee a set butt-in-seat time for class. To each their own, but I find it shocking how some people are denigrating an education opportunity that they have never experienced.
Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
I always smile at these posts as what college or university is completely altruistic and not for profit! Get a grip! Higher education is a business as is healthcare.
And...I've been an APN for 8+ years, a nurse for 20+ years and in four states, multiple facilities I've never been asked where I went to school except to ask what degree did I receive?
For the record, I attended a community college in Las Vegas for an LPN, a private college in Indianapolis for an ADN, University of Phoenix for a BSN and MSN, and a central IL college for two post-MSN certificates.
And...because I'm older than dirt, the first few degrees were all on-campus as it was before the internet - lol
So do tell, since the previous poster mentioned easy homework and program, and they passed everyone, did you feel as though you received a quality education?
Kalevra: 15 months for GCU and roughly 15 hours a week (easily) on homework. I see people fail and have known a few to drop out. If your coworkers are getting by in a year, and think it's easy, they aren't taking full advantage of what they can learn. Statistics culls out students and many have to take it twice. Spirituality was no cake walk. I barely made an A-. As for papers being late..Ummm. No. Not an option. I also know of one person that tried to appeal a decision to increase their grade due to lateness of paper and it was denied. Some instructors will give you a ZERO on your paper, if the APA isn't up to their standards. You can resubmit with a 20% point reduction.
I cannot speak for U of P, and what they do, but I can speak for GCU.
As a mom with kids that attended/attend state universities, they are shocked at the rigor of GCU. The supposed state and therefore non profit have crappy dorms that look like prisons (we are talking three different colleges, btw) and one of the colleges has a football coach that makes more money than the governor.
One school of kid #2, is tearing down some of the dorms because they do not match the other brick buildings. This raised tuition 10% to offset the building costs. Yeah, let's look uniform and pretty at the cost of the students. Smart move...
Lastly, one kid had their school apartment catch fire, through not fault of their own. He was ok, but he was only able to save his laptop. The rest of his belongings were smoke damaged beyond saving.
The college did nothing to help with housing or replacing his belongings. My son had to live out of his car for 6 weeks until spring housing opened up. Even then he was squatting illegally. The university did not reimburse housing or do anything to help him. But since it's a brick and mortar school, we know it must be quality... cough...cough...
Winterwhite:
I had questions about GCU that I wanted answered prior to starting. Since I'm not in AZ, I wasn't going to spend the money for a campus tour, lol. Instead, I emailed the head of education for my organization. He talked to the dean of education at GCU, who then called me, while I was at work. She answered my questions and encouraged me to come down for a tour. She didn't offer to pay for it though! LOL.
I am thinking that I have never had an upgraded flight or hotel room, this was my one upgrade in life and I passed on it! I also live where round trip flights are ~ $69.00 to certain airports on certain days
I am happy that you liked GCU. I never attended but I don't feel that I missed out on going to school in the Grand Canyon. I may have been as happy with that, as PSU, if I had been educated about its rigor. I am just so leery of for profit educational institutions but as you said, most companies are for profit anyway so why should we be leery of a school that is such?
Obviously you are reading this topic, and have continued to call GCU the Grand Canyon on purpose, I personally find that offensive.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
So do tell, since the previous poster mentioned easy homework and program, and they passed everyone, did you feel as though you received a quality education?
Kalevra: 15 months for GCU and roughly 15 hours a week (easily) on homework. I see people fail and have known a few to drop out. If your coworkers are getting by in a year, and think it's easy, they aren't taking full advantage of what they can learn. Statistics culls out students and many have to take it twice. Spirituality was no cake walk. I barely made an A-. As for papers being late..Ummm. No. Not an option. I also know of one person that tried to appeal a decision to increase their grade due to lateness of paper and it was denied. Some instructors will give you a ZERO on your paper, if the APA isn't up to their standards. You can resubmit with a 20% point reduction.
I cannot speak for U of P, and what they do, but I can speak for GCU.
I was young and dumb and fell for the whole "State is better" mentality. I see now that none if it matters. All that really counts is if you have BSN at the end of your title. As long as work pays the differential, I could honestly care less as to where the degree came from. I mean University of Pheonix has an NP and Educator MSN. I know GCU has an educator MSN as well.
I would rather have saved myself the stress of driving an hour and a half twice ,each way, twice a week. I would rather save the 16 hours a week I sat in class barely conscious as I was lectured about transgenders in the new nursing environment, or other such nonsense and just called it in. If I could time travel back, I would go the more convenient route. I have no interest in taking the more difficult road and making my quality of life less comfortable.
I mean really most of these lectures do nothing for my clinical understanding. I can give a much better lecture on sepsis and what ETCO2 has to do with likely hood of survival after asystole. We are actually doing trials in my hospital on lactic acid acidosis and survival rates based on new studies. None of my classes really touched on what nursing faces today, such as breaches in union contracts with no real consequences on the hospital. Or the effects of sedation induced delirium and long term brain function recovery for pts that were under for 20 days or more.
Instead I had to sit in lecture about how the gay, lesbian, transgender community will change the way we deliver healthcare to our pt demographics. We discussed oral care to prevent VAP, I mean really its like saying regular brushing helps prevent cavities. It is a no brainer. I mean I would have rather slept after a 12 hour shift and written some bull in an online forum to get my "discussion" points.
Nursing education is all about making a buck. I was just naive enough to fall for the state university marketing campaign, instead of taking the most efficient choice.
Your reply was actually very informative and I thank you for it. I didn't think the coursework was rigorous. I imagined they passed everyone but I am glad to see that the Grand Canyon had high standards at least.
It only took one reply post to change your mind? This tells me people should refrain from posting inflammatory nonsense if one rebuttal can sway what appears now to have been a simple baseless opinion.
I would be horrified and embarrassed if I had to reply with "University of Phoenix," "Kaplan," or "The Grand Canyon."
“Horrified and embarrassed”? I don’t even know what to say to that. No doubt there are respected leaders in your very place of business that attended these institutions. I would recommend restraint when discussing your opinion in a crowded room, we are everywhere…
Those schools cost more, are less reputable, and aren't any more convenient than the online public state school options.
Sources, please. And if you come up with something, there will be plenty of us to refute based on our personal experiences. Things have changed; people should do their research (as I did) before resurrecting old issues that have long since been corrected.
They are also notorious for piranha-like, harassing recruiting tactics and baracuda-style collection practices.
I can attest the opposite in my experience (down in the Grand Canyon). I made one outbound call in which I spent two hours discussing every nook and cranny of the program with an intelligent and accommodating advisor (I cannot say the same for my conversations with the two local State Universities – they should be embarrassed). Since that time, the only calls I get are to ask if I have any questions or concerns about my educational plan and to get honest feedback on my experience thus far.
In Summary:
It’s apparent from your original post that you just threw your bit of non-wisdom out there with no citable or credible facts to support the basis for your query. You’re basically asking me why would I be an idiot and choose one of the programs that you have simply heard negative things about. This, I feel, is rude to insinuate and irresponsible to post on a forum that is forever carved in stone and will be here for all future nurses to wonder and worry about. Thanks for that. Great way to support and respect your peers!
Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.
I've attended public college for my prereqs and completed my LVN at a private for profit school.
I attended the private school because I needed to start earning good money fast. My program was 1 yr long. I was able to secure employment as a nurse the month after I graduated.
Some of my peers I graduated with have or are considering public school to attain their RN degrees. The drawback is that they will need to complete a whole lot of prereqs, some of which require prereqs in order to get into the prereqs. After that, they evil be eligible to enter the RN program. This will extend the amount of time it takes to get their degree by years!
However, if they attend a private school they will be able to get their RN in 2 yrs total.
If a person has their RN and wants to bridge to a BSN, in my area, the public state schools will require them to repeat the prereqs they already completed at a private school, because even though the private school may be accredited by the sane accrediting body, the state schools find ways to say the class doesn't meet their requirements.
Public school, in my area, requires you to jump thru a lot of hoops.
While I will complete my RN and BSN at a public school, I don't knock those who choose private. It has taken me several years to complete the RN prereqs. Everyone doesn't want to take several years just taking prereqs.
Ok, just for the record, the school is NOT IN THE CANYON! Do you think the students ride donkeys to get to the bottom to attend school? Seriously girl, take a geography class!
Sorry, I thought because of the name it was geographically related to the actual Grand Canyon and/or was situated within the Canyon for recruitment purposes.
.
I also live where round trip flights are ~ $69.00 to certain airports on certain days 
kalevra, BSN, RN
530 Posts
Many of My Coworkers went through the online for profit schools. There were two main reasons as to why they chose this route. First is because the totally online programs allow you to self pace, you could drop down to full time or one class at a time whenever you wanted. Most importantly, it also means they could work and not have to worry about driving to a physical school. They could do their school work in the comfort of their own home in their underwear if they wanted. The Second reason was the soft understanding that many of these for profit school such as Pheonix and GCU are a "you pay, you pass" system. My Coworkers brag about how laughable the discussions and assignments are, absolutely easy and stress free. Even if they miss assignments, they can just ask for an extension and if the instructor does not comply they go straight to the dean. My aunt works for Pheonix, she was told by the dean she could not fail certain people, because they were paying on time.
In the end of it all it comes down to a few things. Look around, does a BSN increase your scope of practice enough that it makes a real difference? In most states a BSN and ADN have the exact same scope. Why would you want to be inconvenienced with physical classes, added stress of inflexible schools, and extended length till completion.
I know of one coworker who went from ADN to BSN in 12 months via GCU. Most state university programs here are on a semester system, such as falll/spring/fall. Doing the State University program would take about a year and a half. Doing the online for profit system is about 1 year.
As for cost, my BSN in a state school cost about $11,000 for tuition alone. The cost for GCU in my area is $15,500. Once you factor in time saved in the for profit online system it all comes out the same.
No one in my hospital cares about where your degree of nursing comes from. Our director has his MBA from GCU. Our DON got her masters from GCU.
I try not to believe in the hype of State Vs. For-Profit. Its all the same scam. The for profits are just more honest about their scam, they know how the game works and provide a service we want. The state system tries to sell you the idea that State is better because they are a state school etc.
Were all grown here, I just want to get the job done. That is all that matters.