Why do nurses treat each other do way they do?

Fribblet · Sep 2, 2010

I am still hoping that there is one RN out there who will come forward and say...yep, that is how we roll on my floor. I know you are out there somewhere. The fact that no one has posted this tells me they know it is wrong, but they don't care and it feeds the ego and makes them feel uber important!!!!

More likely, they think "Ugh! I know nurses like that! I, of course, am NEVER like that!"

We more easily recognize fault in others than in ourselves.

I'm pretty sure just about everyone has been guilty of this in some form or another at some point in their life. Some get over it, some are still in denial. :)

Getreal2011 · Sep 2, 2010

i posted a respond to another thread and it really got me thinking. this was part of it:
but its not only doctors with bad attitudes in hospitals. nurses treat other nurses like crap. i've seen rns do some really callous stuff to cnas and lpns. i'm not sure when the "i'm better than so and so because i'm an rn and she/he's not' attitude became so prevalent in nursing. i have to say the relationships between experienced nurses, new nurses, and nurse aids is what is the bigger issue. doctors can have sticks up their behinds all day and it still wouldn't have a huge effect on patient care. but if the communication between the nurses break down it makes a stressful and unsafe work environment.
my question is why do nurses treat each other the way they do? why do the aides get treated the way they do too? granted i'm a new nurse but in my other career field i never experienced so much backstabbing and total disregard of other staff as i have with nursing. maybe it is the nursing schools. i've seen many new nurses that believe as rns they are above poo or messy direct patient care. as a student i watch many nurses just leave a room or call in an aide to change patients or to clean up messes. a nurse i was assigned to one day even told me not to bother with "that type of work' because i was not going to school to learn to wipe someones behind. she said that will leaving the room, going back to the computer to shop online. also i've read many posts here from new nurses with more experienced nurses trying to make their life as miserable as possible. i know we are very concerned with these mean insensitive doctors. but when will there be a change in the way nurses treat each other?
can anyone shed some light on this? or share their experiences.

unfortunately, this happens in any industry. :uhoh3:

i think that sometimes it's a matter of insecurity, exhaustion from work, and at times down right evilness. people sometimes feel threatened by what/who they don't know. people also tend to deal with others based on prior experiences whether they be good or bad.

when i see someone come along with a "bad" attitude, i work around the attitude. we are there to do a job. i won't be bullied and they soon realize this. sometimes, these same folks are simply misunderstood. remember that old saying, "kill em' with kindness". sometimes, that really works. when it doesn't...just keep it moving.

new nurses, veteran nurses, and those in between should not be negatively labeled by the immature actions of a few. there are great nurses that fit in all those categories. continue to be an example to those who will appreciate it!

my :twocents:

PaddyCake · Sep 2, 2010

I am going to hope that this is a case of a few bad apples spoil the bunch type of thinking. I am a medical transcriptionist and have noticed lots of the same attitudes with the women I work with. I am a natural peace keeper, so my way of handling it is to try not to take it personally, I always say thank you for pointing that out when someone points out a mistake, and I have tried to find something in common with each of the people that I feel are miserable and in a position of some power over me. It has made things go much smoother for me. I think not taking it personally is the big one. It actually turns out they treat everyone like that, so nothing personal against me. I might reconsider nursing school. I know for whatever reason LPNs are looked down on by RNs, but I am almost 40 years old and quite frankly, I don't really care. I know I will be a great nurse and a compassionate caretaker.

LovelyDragon · Sep 2, 2010

Definitely right! there are some out there are just plain evil and 'stalker' like. I have one that in my opinion, this woman is insecure and somebody that will take advantage that whatever this woman can get for her own personal gain.

SoundofMusic · Sep 2, 2010

I think it's because as a group, they're generally oppressed. The management knows they're trapped by the administrators, so they just use whatever little power they have left to brutalize their nurses. And then it all just rolls downhill. I also believe and have witnessed that nurses just are not held to a level of professionalism as are their counterparts in other industries. They can walk and talk entirely foulmouthed and no one stops them. Older more egotistical nurses also tend to treat the younger newer nurses like garbage, and then the traumatized nurses either quit or turn into monsters themselves ...

The managers I've seen generally have sold their souls ...I honestly dont' know how they look themselves in the mirror everyday. But the ones I've seen are generally the breadwinners, tend to select very unproductive spouses, and thus, are trapped in their jobs also.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Sep 2, 2010

I posted a respond to another thread and it really got me thinking. This was part of it:
But its not only doctors with bad attitudes in hospitals. Nurses treat other nurses like crap. I've seen RNs do some really callous stuff to CNAs and LPNs. I'm not sure when the "I'm better than so and so because I'm an RN and she/he's not' attitude became so prevalent in nursing. I have to say the relationships between experienced nurses, new nurses, and nurse aids is what is the bigger issue. Doctors can have sticks up their behinds all day and it still wouldn't have a huge effect on patient care. But if the communication between the nurses break down it makes a stressful and unsafe work environment.
My question is why do nurses treat each other the way they do? Why do the aides get treated the way they do too? Granted I'm a new nurse but in my other career field I never experienced so much backstabbing and total disregard of other staff as I have with nursing. Maybe it is the nursing schools. I've seen many new nurses that believe as RNs they are above poo or messy direct patient care. As a student I watch many nurses just leave a room or call in an aide to change patients or to clean up messes. A nurse I was assigned to one day even told me not to bother with "that type of work' because I was not going to school to learn to wipe someones behind. She said that will leaving the room, going back to the computer to shop online. Also I've read many posts here from new nurses with more experienced nurses trying to make their life as miserable as possible. I know we are very concerned with these mean insensitive doctors. But when will there be a change in the way nurses treat each other?
Can anyone shed some light on this? Or share their experiences.

My short answer is, they don't. But, of course, I've never been one to give a short answer when a long one can be found. Also, of course, they do. Sometimes. But you indicate in your post that you are a newish nurse, so I am going to assume you are probably going through one of the most stressful times in your life, and I would like to suggest that that may color your perception more than you realize. You say you have seen "many" examples of nurses behaving badly, but have you actually seen many nurses, period? In my first year, I worked regularly with about a dozen nurses and worked occassionally or saw at shift change maybe twice that. Not really a very representational sample of the nursing population, even at my facility. I did see more in my previous position, seven years as an orderly, but a lot of times I didn't really see them, because I really didn't know what they were going through. In my five years as a nurse, I've gotten acquainted with quite a few more, and I've found the vast majority to be good folks, doing their best in a difficult field. Of these, very few never have a less-than-exemplary moment, but on the whole, my time as a nurse has taught me more respect for nurses, and I have seen even some I initially thought were stinkers shine when the chips were down.

A recent experience might help illustrate. I had a crappy weekend, last weekend. Friday night, I got pulled to another unit and had six busy patients. Six is our max. I spent twelve hours running my butt off, and from time to time I saw the other nurses sitting around, shooting the breeze. Early in my career, I'd have been tempted to think I had the worst patients dumped on me and everyone else was chillin', but it wasn't my first time on that floor and I've learned that all of their patients are crappy. The difference was, the other nurses were more familiar with the population and knew where to find supplies. If I had known what I was doing, I'd have had more time to BS. If I had known the other nurses, I'd have had stuff to BS about. I did know the charge nurse, a little, from seeing him at charge nurse meetings and bed briefings, and I know he's a decent guy, so it's hard to entertain the idea that he would crap all over me. Simple truth is, if he had been floated to my unit, he'd have had a crappy night, too.

Sunday night was an even crappier night on my home floor. Most of my patients were medically pretty stable. Two were ordered vital signs "while awake" and another was Qshift. Part of what made my night crappy was that those three didn't even see an aide from midnight to almost 0700, so I did a lot of fetching water, blankets, etc, which wouldn't have been awful except that one of my patients was a serious fall risk and another, my 8pm admit, had seizure-like activity and some probable psych issues, and another was on multiple antibiotics that I had to call the pharmacy for multiple times. The other nurses on my floor were also pretty busy, and while our charge did ask what she could do to help me several times, there just wasn't a lot I could think of to ask for, other than maybe it would have been nice if the aide could have popped around a couple of times to see if anyone needed anything (Our aides don't always appreciate the urgency in a pitcher of icewater, and there's a tendency among several of them to think the nurses could get off their butts and get that. I know they have hard jobs for poor pay, but I'd be more sympathetic if I had time to pee. Honestly, I need to start calling them for things they can do, even though it takes longer than doing it myself, and when they tell me it took longer to ask them to do it than if I had done it myself, I need to start pointing out that I shouldn't have had to ask at all. It's their job to make sure these things are done.)

In the course of this shift, I also had to talk to the neurosurgeon covering my fall patient. Despite wrist restraints, he'd managed to pull off his central line dressing, but the line was still sutured, so I was pretty sure it was okay. Replaced the dressing and told her about it. She was surprised it was still in and also wondered whether we could d/c his restraints. At this point, the central line was his only invasive line, so I said I'd try to get a peripheral so she could pull it. Unfortunately, it turned out there was a good reason he had a central, and I couldn't get a peripheral, or even find a likely place for one of our experts to try. So we left it, then discussed whether to end the restraints anyway, which we did, and he was a lot less restless without them. Now, this surgeon is one of my faves, and a couple of newer ones can be a little cocky, at times, but it's really fairly typical of my interactions with docs that we discuss the situation and work out solutions as colleagues, and it would be a mistake to let a couple of negative interactions outweigh the many times things go just as they should. But I have to give myself a little pat on the back (because I would never leave anything that important to someone else) for having enough experience to realize that a crappy night is just a crappy night, and not necessarily anyone's fault or evidence of pervasive crappiness. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes you have to stay over a couple of hours documenting the many ways the bear got you.

Well, I warned you I'm not one for short answers. My point, back when I still had one, is that there are a lot of things that are right with nursing, and I think it's important for newer nurses to look for them. There's real potential for a feedback loop--if you feel bad about your work, it tends to get worse, but if you feel good about it, you're more equipped to be a positive force for making it better. Things that seem devastating and things that seem wrong will inevitably look different when you've worn out a few pairs of shoes, but it's partly up to each of us whether things look better or worse.

MsbossyRN · Sep 2, 2010

My short answer is, they don't. But, of course, I've never been one to give a short answer when a long one can be found. Also, of course, they do. Sometimes. But you indicate in your post that you are a newish nurse, so I am going to assume you are probably going through one of the most stressful times in your life, and I would like to suggest that that may color your perception more than you realize. You say you have seen "many" examples of nurses behaving badly, but have you actually seen many nurses, period? In my first year, I worked regularly with about a dozen nurses and worked occassionally or saw at shift change maybe twice that. Not really a very representational sample of the nursing population, even at my facility. I did see more in my previous position, seven years as an orderly, but a lot of times I didn't really see them, because I really didn't know what they were going through. In my five years as a nurse, I've gotten acquainted with quite a few more, and I've found the vast majority to be good folks, doing their best in a difficult field. Of these, very few never have a less-than-exemplary moment, but on the whole, my time as a nurse has taught me more respect for nurses, and I have seen even some I initially thought were stinkers shine when the chips were down.
A recent experience might help illustrate. I had a crappy weekend, last weekend. Friday night, I got pulled to another unit and had six busy patients. Six is our max. I spent twelve hours running my butt off, and from time to time I saw the other nurses sitting around, shooting the breeze. Early in my career, I'd have been tempted to think I had the worst patients dumped on me and everyone else was chillin', but it wasn't my first time on that floor and I've learned that all of their patients are crappy. The difference was, the other nurses were more familiar with the population and knew where to find supplies. If I had known what I was doing, I'd have had more time to BS. If I had known the other nurses, I'd have had stuff to BS about. I did know the charge nurse, a little, from seeing him at charge nurse meetings and bed briefings, and I know he's a decent guy, so it's hard to entertain the idea that he would crap all over me. Simple truth is, if he had been floated to my unit, he'd have had a crappy night, too.
Sunday night was an even crappier night on my home floor. Most of my patients were medically pretty stable. Two were ordered vital signs "while awake" and another was Qshift. Part of what made my night crappy was that those three didn't even see an aide from midnight to almost 0700, so I did a lot of fetching water, blankets, etc, which wouldn't have been awful except that one of my patients was a serious fall risk and another, my 8pm admit, had seizure-like activity and some probable psych issues, and another was on multiple antibiotics that I had to call the pharmacy for multiple times. The other nurses on my floor were also pretty busy, and while our charge did ask what she could do to help me several times, there just wasn't a lot I could think of to ask for, other than maybe it would have been nice if the aide could have popped around a couple of times to see if anyone needed anything (Our aides don't always appreciate the urgency in a pitcher of icewater, and there's a tendency among several of them to think the nurses could get off their butts and get that. I know they have hard jobs for poor pay, but I'd be more sympathetic if I had time to pee. Honestly, I need to start calling them for things they can do, even though it takes longer than doing it myself, and when they tell me it took longer to ask them to do it than if I had done it myself, I need to start pointing out that I shouldn't have had to ask at all. It's their job to make sure these things are done.)
In the course of this shift, I also had to talk to the neurosurgeon covering my fall patient. Despite wrist restraints, he'd managed to pull off his central line dressing, but the line was still sutured, so I was pretty sure it was okay. Replaced the dressing and told her about it. She was surprised it was still in and also wondered whether we could d/c his restraints. At this point, the central line was his only invasive line, so I said I'd try to get a peripheral so she could pull it. Unfortunately, it turned out there was a good reason he had a central, and I couldn't get a peripheral, or even find a likely place for one of our experts to try. So we left it, then discussed whether to end the restraints anyway, which we did, and he was a lot less restless without them. Now, this surgeon is one of my faves, and a couple of newer ones can be a little cocky, at times, but it's really fairly typical of my interactions with docs that we discuss the situation and work out solutions as colleagues, and it would be a mistake to let a couple of negative interactions outweigh the many times things go just as they should. But I have to give myself a little pat on the back (because I would never leave anything that important to someone else) for having enough experience to realize that a crappy night is just a crappy night, and not necessarily anyone's fault or evidence of pervasive crappiness. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes you have to stay over a couple of hours documenting the many ways the bear got you.
Well, I warned you I'm not one for short answers. My point, back when I still had one, is that there are a lot of things that are right with nursing, and I think it's important for newer nurses to look for them. There's real potential for a feedback loop--if you feel bad about your work, it tends to get worse, but if you feel good about it, you're more equipped to be a positive force for making it better. Things that seem devastating and things that seem wrong will inevitably look different when you've worn out a few pairs of shoes, but it's partly up to each of us whether things look better or worse.

I really enjoyed reading your response. I am just a new nurse, just licensed in mid july. But I did see a lot in clinical, and we worked at many different hospitals/floors. Even the shadowing volunteering I did before going to nursing school painted a rosy picture of team nursing, with nurses caring and helping each other out. N.S. was night compared and day lol. At first I thought the instructors were just trying to intimidate and scare us. With teaching us C.Y.O.A. and 'every man for himself' kind of mentality. But once we got on the floor with our different clinical instructors it showed they were not lying. I watched students bawling in nursing school and huge numbers of drop outs because that was not something they wanted to put up with everyday. I stuck it out because I thought it had to get better. As a matter of fact going in I new it would be stressful with the patients, doctors and possibly bosses. But I was not expecting the attitude of some of the peers I have came across. While I haven't yet got a 'real job' as a nurse. Its sad that is a job where people's lives aren't on the line (such as retail and customer service) there is more camaraderie among peers than in nursing where peoples lives are in our hands.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Sep 2, 2010

I don't mean to suggest that horizontal violence and lack of teamwork aren't problems in nursing, and the fact that patients' lives are on the line is all the more reason they need to be addressed. But I also think that very intensity is part of the reason problems occur. The camaraderie that can be found in nursing is hard won. This isn't (usually) combat, and we aren't (usually) trusting our coworkers with our lives, but we frequently are trusting them with our patients' lives and our licenses. I think at least some of the "cliquishness" that is sometimes reported by newcomers may be that sort of camaraderie, and you don't generally get to share in that until you've proven yourself. It does get out of hand, at times. Newcomers should be given the chance to show what they can do, not hazed or shunned, and it's in our own interest to help newcomers become veterans. But even in the best of environments, you can't be a veteran until you've been through some battles.

Another aspect of that intensity as that we just about all deep-down believe we have the most important job in the world. On a rational basis, that's debatable, but I don't think many of us question it while we're on the job. In many respects, I'm about as laid-back as one can be and still score in double digits on the Glasgow Coma Scale. But there have been times at work when I have experienced something close to road rage. I am personally affronted by incompetence and negligence, particularly when it adversely affects a patient, and most especially my patient. It hurts me to think there are people in the healthcare field who don't take their responsibilities as seriously as I do. And so, it takes a real effort, sometimes, to remind myself that most do take their responsibilities as seriously as I do and are doing the best they can, and that sometimes their best, just like mine, isn't as good as we could wish it was. I don't go around looking for excuses to "write someone up," but I guess I am evil enough to have a bit of a sense of where that can come from. One of our duties is to police ourselves, and it can be ever-so-easy to slip into police brutality.

I've had a doctor tell me that nurses are control freaks. I've seen speculation that most of us come from somewhat dysfunctional backgrounds. Both may be true. But I also think we'd all be more relaxed if we were selling shoes. A person in normal life who washed his hands as much as I do would be a slam-dunk diagnosis for OCD. I've worked on steep roofs 40-50 feet above the ground. I never vomited from anxiety until I became a nurse. A lot of the things nurses do routinely (e.g. peri-care) would be kinda psychotic in any other area of life.

I seem to be arguing that we deserve credit for not being even worse than we are. I think it's time for my nap.

crazyl8y · Oct 21, 2010

Quote: My question is why do nurses treat each other the way they do?
My response:
*Because they can.
* Because they are not held accountable for their actions nor behaviors.
* Because it is a female dominated profession.
* Because they are stressed out , overworked and have high Patient to Nurse ratio's and they are exhuasted.
I have been an RN over 20 yrs. In that time I have worked many different jobs. (Been a traveler for ten years) And I also have a tendency to have more than one job. I enjoy variety so I am constantly exposing myself to new experiences and types of Nursing.
Recently I have been a receiver (not victim) of Horizontal workplace violence which in English is bullying.
I returned to my hometown and took FT paying jobs.
Here are my experiences:
Job #1 wanted me to fraudelently document, write Doctors orders (like write them all out , not verbal orders ) they ignored Emtala Regulations and I was constantly listening to everyone gossiping and talking badly about their co workers.
Job #2 -- Lied about me.
It was a community nursing job. I told them that I was not available to do visits on a particular weekend. The scheduler basically forgot to schedule a visit with a patient and I was their scapegoat. Unbeknownst to me at the time , they placed a statement in the patients chart using my initials and stated that they emailed and called me about making this visit and basically I "blew it off" . I never realized this until I went into the office to do the recert and saw this in the patients chart. I was shocked!! I quickly left the office. Wrote a letter to the Director and CC to the Nurse Administrator. There was NEVER a resolution after I gave them plenty of opportunity to professionally resolve this matter so I left.
Job #3--- I was subjected to ethnic slurs in regards to a patient and it just so happened that I was of this ethnicity. Also the preceptor that I had was not invested at all in training me in this particular arena and acted like I was a nuisance and inconvenience the whole time. Answered any questions with a one word response, made no eye contact and was condescending like I was a total pain in her butt. I had to just about chase after her because she constantly left me high and dry all the time. My Supervisor was also sarcastic and condescending, like a snake in the grass(I have heard her described this way) and now that I am gone an inside source told me she was fired.
In ALL my years of Nursing this was the first time I personally have confronted all of the above and to think it all happened in my hometown!!!
I have EXCELLENT references, have always gotten along with my Co-workers and have never had issues with my interpersonal relationships.
HOWEVER with that said : I have witnessed and observed first hand the recipients of bullying and horizontal workplace violence within the Nursing field. I think its deplorable!
As a result of everything I have written above I never encourage people to go into Nursing... EVER. I tell them to go into PT, OT, radiology and other areas where you are more well respected, not working every other weekend, holidays, high nurse -patient ratio's, subjected to bullying, gossip, rotating shifts to the point where you dont know whether you are coming or going( you see this in some areas more than others)
I am so sorry if this is coming across as negative. Thats why I usually dont respond to these posts but I just had to share this time.
This has been my experience(unfortunately) And now I have been at a contract where everyone talks about everyone so much my head is spinning and there is great dissatisfaction and unhappiness amongst the nurses.
Now just to offer the flip side of this coin: I have also worked with Nurses who were the MOST wonderful Human beings I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. But generally job satisfaction plays a VERY major role in this presentation. And unfortunately too many places are just way too abusive to their Nurses especially nowadays with the economy being what it is.

Question: were the "Nurses who were the MOST wonderful Human beings" ever bullied?

NurseFrustrated · Oct 21, 2010

I've seen many new nurses that believe as RNs they are above poo or messy direct patient care. As a student I watch many nurses just leave a room or call in an aide to change patients or to clean up messes. A nurse I was assigned to one day even told me not to bother with "that type of work' because I was not going to school to learn to wipe someones behind. She said that will leaving the room, going back to the computer to shop online.
If I ask an assistant to clean up poo, it's only if I am running behind and I'm delegating so I can do my charting. Shame on the nurse who refused to help her assistant clean up the patient to go shop online. There is no excuse for that. We are not even allowed to get online at work.
I certainly don't think I'm above cleaning up poo because I have cleaned up plenty of it in my nursing career and am sure will continue to do so. It doesn't bother me. Some nursing assistants think that nurses think we are too good to clean up poo but that's not always the case. Nurses have paperwork to do that assistants don't have to do. The nursing assistants get to leave on time and I have to stay over and do paperwork if I don't get it done during my shift. They don't seem to understand that.
But I get along great with my nursing assistants. I ask them to do things very respectfully. I don't take advantage of them and I always offer my thanks to them for their help.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Oct 21, 2010

it never ceases to amaze me that we have so many members who swear up and down that they've been "victims of horizontal violence or bullying" even though they've been perfect. no one will admit they've ever been guilty of horizontal violence . . . . no one will admit that they may have been the recipient of some well-deserved anger.

like beauty, i think bullying is in the eye of the beholder.

in the past fifteen years or so, nursing has changed. we used to all work together as a team. when one person was busy, we were all helping out until the work was caught up. it isn't that way anymore. one person will sit and play on the computer when everyone around her is busy. when asked for help, she'll say "just a minute," only she never gets up to actually help. and if someone complains to (or about) her, she's the victim of horizontal violence. then, when she's busy, she complains that no one wants to help her out. again, she's the victim of bullying. another person bursts into tears any time she recieves any negative feedback, no matter how gentle. then she's in the manager's office complaining that she's being targeted by the mean old nurses who ought to be happy to have her around since she just got out of school and she knows so much more than they do.

i worked with sal, who never did seem to catch on to anything we tried to teach her. she gave the wrong meds to the wrong patient, repeatedly sent blood draws to the lab without labels, had no critical thinking skills, couldn't tell her preceptor why her patients were getting any of the meds they were getting two hours after having it all explained to her . . . and she was convinced she was being targeted because of her sexual orientation. when she was fired, she insisted she was being fired for no good reason other than people didn't want to help her.

i don't think nurses are any meaner than anyone else. i just think that given the work load, the short staffing, the long hours, the abuse we get from patients and families and the importance of getting things right, some of us are more direct than others of us are used to. and the nurses who say what they mean without pussyfooting around it are often accused of being mean to the nurses who can't hear anything negative without bursting into tears. if i tell you not to give potassium iv push, it's because it's bad for the patient not because i don't like you, don't want to teach you, or am being mean. and if i have to tell you twice -- and the second time i'm not as nice as you might like -- grow up and deal with it.

the fact that someone doesn't like the interaction does not mean that someone else is bullying them.