If all the nursing school suddenly open the door and let more people in, there will be a overflowed. Think about all those software programmers back in the days, lawyers, MBAs. We used to think lawyers and MBAs can make a pretty good living but now there are too many out on the streets.
I'm sure you guys don't want to see the same thing happen in nursing, don't you? DO NOT increase enrollments of nursing schools please. Otherwise, we will all suffer. Graduate 10,000 new nurses each year across the nation would be enough.
If you are in nursing education, tell the dean DO NOT increase the enrollments therwise, we will all be screwed.
I dont see them speaking up.I agree there is more B.S nurses have to deal with in these days but there are also some improvements in other aspect of nursing like technology,nurses right to speak up to the doctor.Now the nurses arent afraid to be advocate for their patients rights.Back in a day the doctor was the authority and the nurses were terrified to go againt his will.
And talking from experience when I was a in Emergency room I didnt see all those nurses being so busy that they couldnt pass patient water.Again Tv shows are far-fetched.
MichiganRN has done a fine job of telling it like it is. Since you want an older, more experienced nurse to chime in....I'll do so.
Doctors have always treated nurses like handmaidens. But they also treated them more professionally than throwing charts at them, as long as the nurse stayed in "her place". There has always been inequality, but you did not find the large amounts of unprofessional yelling and physical violence of surgeons throwing instruments at the scrub nurses like you find now.
Patients and families rarely treated nurses with the disrespect that is prevalent now. Many years ago, nurses took care of two to three times as many patients as floor nurses do now. Yet you did not find all the patients yelling and screaming, demanding the nurse to kiss their butts and get them colder water. They were grateful for the care that they got and waited their turn with much more patience than is seen today.
Years ago, nursing students did not speak out of turn about things of which they had no experience. They tried to keep their eyes and ears open and their mouths shut so as to absorb as much information as they could from experienced nurses.
MichiganRN has done a fine job of telling it like it is. Since you want an older, more experienced nurse to chime in....I'll do so.
Doctors have always treated nurses like handmaidens. But they also treated them more professionally than throwing charts at them, as long as the nurse stayed in "her place". There has always been inequality, but you did not find the large amounts of unprofessional yelling and physical violence of surgeons throwing instruments at the scrub nurses like you find now.
Patients and families rarely treated nurses with the disrespect that is prevalent now. Many years ago, nurses took care of two to three times as many patients as floor nurses do now. Yet you did not find all the patients yelling and screaming, demanding the nurse to kiss their butts and get them colder water. They were grateful for the care that they got and waited their turn with much more patience than is seen today.
Years ago, nursing students did not speak out of turn about things of which they had no experience. They tried to keep their eyes and ears open and their mouths shut so as to absorb as much information as they could from experienced nurses.
Thank you, RN. I'm sure when Kasia finishes her first year of nursing, she'll feel differently.
how could anyone possibly believe that nursing isn't more stressful today?
i don't get it.
leslie
Amen Sister! Look at all the nurses we have now with their license suspended or on probation due to drug diversion. Drugs didn't used to be under lock and key like they are now. Locked yes, controlled like they are now, no. It would have been very easy to divert drugs years ago but it rarely occured.
Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care, Gero, dementia.
Nursing is harder and more stressful today, at least in part because of technology.
As Leslie pointed out, technology has made it possible to keep people alive longer and sicker. Technology (and the growth of nursing scope of practice) means that nurses need to know more -- unfortunately the way this is dealt with in many schools is by trying to cram more information down student's throats rather than teaching them how to be active, life-long learners responsible for their own knowledge base.
Nursing is more stressful because of regulation, abusive patients/families and health industry (both insurance and health institutions) not caring about anything other than the bottom line.
It's true, a portion of what is happening has to do with people leaving the profession, but the other thing is the demographic imperative: more nurses (and nursing instructors) are aging and retiring. In general, more people are aging, and as more people live longer with more health problems there will be more need for nursing services! (The largest portion of health care expenses occur in the last year of life) Not to mention that as we have more older adults and fewer younger adults there will be fewer informal caregivers meaning the will be a need for more professional caregivers! (There is also a shortage of doctors, esp. GP docs and any kind of rural providers).
The health care system is broke, and the situation is only going to get worse as more people age with an attitude of entitlement.
Chris Tanner, a brilliant nurse researcher and educator wrote a highly respected report on the nursing shortage in Oregon. Here are a few key points (and you can figure that most of these stats can be extended to the entire country, probably most of the world)
Nearly one-half of Oregon's RNs are 50 years of age or older. The proportion of nurses over 50 has more than doubled in the past 20 years.
An exodus of retiring nurses is now underway. By 2025, 41 percent of currently licensed RNs are expected to retire.
By 2010, an estimated 65 full-time equivalent nursing faculty positions in Oregon will be vacated due to retirements. Update: As of June 2006, nursing schools in Oregon report that they presently have 16 unfilled positions, that their anticipated recruitment need in the next 2 years is 56 nursing faculty, and that they anticipate 36 additional nurses will retire in the next 3-5 years. That is a need for 92 additional nursing faculty in the next 5 years. Faculty must be prepared at the Master's and Doctoral levels.
Six percent of RNs currently working in the state plan to leave Oregon's nursing workforce for reasons other than retirement within the next two years. Nurses under the age of 40 are more likely to have plans to leave than those 40 or older.
Demand for RNs will continue to grow steadily. An additional 15,700 RN job openings are expected statewide over the next 15 years.
The age distribution of Oregon's population will change dramatically over the next 20 years. The number of Oregonians 65 and older will exceed one million by 2005, accounting for nearly 25 percent of all the state's residents. Older residents generally consume more healthcare.
If you go here you'll find more about the nursing shortage, at least in Oregon (but like I said, I don't think it is unique). If you look at the Strategic Plan, you'll see that the #1 goal has to do with recruitment and retention
As soon as people start making simple statements about complicated problems you're going to wind up with a inaccurate and incomplete understanding of the issue.
Specializes in CVICU, Burns, Trauma, BMT, Infection control.
I dont know from which school student you had came from ,but in our school our instructors watch us and stand by our side when we take medication from pixys.When I used to take on patients lets say with high blood pressure the nurses didnt double check the blood pressure I took before I administered medication. .As a matter fact I refused at least twice to go ahead with the order because I thought it was unsafe(one time patient had very low blood pressure and I told the nurse and she still insisted I give patient the medication so I let the instructor know that I thought it was wrong.Another case was when I had to give a patient whole lot of Insulin units and I also refused).Bottom line my instructor agree with me and I didnt had follow the order.I dont think the nurses are unhappy having students and they enjoy that we take some of their work weight.Some get even angry when we wont get the procedure done.I remember I was taking care of the patient who needed dressing change and my instructor asked the nurse if she wants to watch me how I do it.You should see the face she gave him and with unhappy tone of voice she said she would stay with me for the procedure.Why this attitude, she would have to do it anyway but I guess in her mind the patient was assigned to me and she have the opportunity to use her time for something else.I could throw in more examples,but I think I made my point.All I know iswhen I chart my assessement nurses dont assess my patient AGAIN,so please dont tell me that this is the case.
Kasia,I imagine the nurse's face fell because despite the fact that she has a full assignment and has to follow after you and your instructor she now has to watch you take at LEAST twice as long to do a dressing as she does.
Where I worked we had students and I've always had students and precepted new employees sometimes while having an assignment and being in charge,the assignment and the acuity was so high that even running full tilt I barely had time to get my work done much less follow behind a bunch of students who crowded around the pyxis while I tried to get all my AM meds out,give PRNs and attend to problems like chest pain or hypertension.
You really have no idea how complicated it is to have a pt assignment,a orientee and students and make sure you get all your work done and no mistakes get made.
I appreciated it when someone did something for me and would say so but don't ask me to watch you,the instructor should do it or I'll do it myself in much less time,be done and on to other things.
Specializes in CVICU, Burns, Trauma, BMT, Infection control.
You say that nurses were treated with MUCH respect back in a day.Can you please post some reliable data about this?Not to offend but were you there to see how the "sisters" were treated by patients,doctors,managment?Books,movies are one thing but private incidences,real-life situations are another.Nurses were always looked down upon by the doctors and society.Nursing field was never considered prestigious.Right now the field is getting more wispread and popular.You can see the TV commercial or newspaper ad where the nurse stand side by side with the doctors and other medical team giving a false impression that everyone is treated with the same volume of respect.
Believe it,we were. Before the MBAs got ahold of the the medical field and there were almost enough nurses working and vacancies were actually filled,we could take care of people like we should. People didn't wait for 22 hours and die in their chair,no one waited in the ER for days just to drop dead. We got our work done and although it was different,not computer based,it was still very busy. We worked as a team,there was NONE of this incredible back stabbing that is so prevalent today. People appreciated us,they didn't look for things to sue about,understood that nurses are human and occasionally made a mistake but mistakes were much less common because there was a LOT MORE HELP. Not only were there more nurses,there were more RT,OT,PT ,lab techs,CNAs,sectretaries and so on. I would estimate that were're working with only about a third of the staff that we used to and with sicker pts.We didn't have the resistant organisms that we have now because we had enough housekeepers to properly terminally clean the room instead of the hit and miss that they do now because there are so few.
OMG I just can't believe this tone of this conversation,I'm going to sign off after this I have a migraine. Jeez!
Specializes in CVICU, Burns, Trauma, BMT, Infection control.
Just so we're clear I'm not trying to talk anybody out of nursing as a career,just realize that it is what it is. We definitely need new nurses and more nurses and always will,there are always going to be sick people. It really doesn't do any good to fight among ourselves though,we are on the same team.:cheers:
I have been reading through this thread and I must say that my blood is starting to boil Yes, in my area(out west) there is a nursing shortage. Nurses are retiring in large numbers and many experienced nurses have gotten fed up and walked away. Nursing is not an easy field- it is back breaking, heart breaking, and often thankless work. And over my 12 years, I have seen a change in attitudes of the pts/family(Just like Michigan said). Nursing is now starting to be an even dangerous profession. I am not "bitter" I am just telling the truth. New grads need to know what they're in for- and I think that is what many of us "old, bitter," more experienced nurses are trying to point out.
Now, to all of you students who are on some moral high ground- you will find this out in time. You are not "helping" me when you are assigned one of my pt's- I am still responsible for that pt, I still assess them, and follow behind you and your instructor all day to make sure things got done correctly. I do not have time to "watch" you do XYZ... that is what your instructor is for! If your instructor does not have time, then you can observe me do the task. Sorry if this sounds harsh- it is true. That being said, there is really no excuse for flat out rudeness to students and you should be treated with the kindness and respect that is shown to any other visitor on the unit.
I have to say that I am so angry with some of these post from students on this thread:
"If every nurse stayed as enthusiastic as she was when she was in nursing school, patient care would remain excellent"
HOW DARE YOU!!?? Do you really believe that a nurse fresh out of school can give better care than an experienced nurse? Please!
"We know you aren't holding the hand of the dying patient with that attitude, so let us poor souls come into the field and throw a bone your way."
Yep... we obviously don't know what we're doing so please come save us with all of your knowledge and skill!
I encourage you both to print out this thread and take a look at it in 10 years.
MichiganRN has done a fine job of telling it like it is. Since you want an older, more experienced nurse to chime in....I'll do so.
Doctors have always treated nurses like handmaidens. But they also treated them more professionally than throwing charts at them, as long as the nurse stayed in "her place". There has always been inequality, but you did not find the large amounts of unprofessional yelling and physical violence of surgeons throwing instruments at the scrub nurses like you find now.
Patients and families rarely treated nurses with the disrespect that is prevalent now. Many years ago, nurses took care of two to three times as many patients as floor nurses do now. Yet you did not find all the patients yelling and screaming, demanding the nurse to kiss their butts and get them colder water. They were grateful for the care that they got and waited their turn with much more patience than is seen today.
Years ago, nursing students did not speak out of turn about things of which they had no experience. They tried to keep their eyes and ears open and their mouths shut so as to absorb as much information as they could from experienced nurses.
You stated that nurses had more patients to take care of,but now when the nurse takes 5-6 patients they make a big scene out of it.If you dont like the patient load,you can always switch to private duty and take care of one patient.The choice is always yours.And when I was in clinical the only time I saw patients complaining when they were in a lot of pain and had to wait for the nurse 2 HOURS so she could give them pain med.Can you blame them for that?How would you react.When I took care of a patients they were really nice,of course not all of them but MAJORITY of them and no one asked me to kiss their butt (metaphorically of course).At least they said thank you.
Maybe the reason for the student not speaking up in the past was that nurses were nicer to them and were more enthusiastic about their job.
"You stated that nurses had more patients to take care of,but now when the nurse takes 5-6 patients they make a big scene out of it."
I don't expect you to know this but... PATIENTS HAVE GOTTEN SICKER over the years! You see, many of the patients that were in the ICUs 15 years ago are on the floors now.... and the patients that are in the ICUs NOW would have been DEAD back then! Point is- times have changed and so has pt acuity, and so has our workload, which is why states are going to mandatory nurse to pt ratios like CA. See, with safe staffing ratios, we don't all have to "switch to private duty" and the patients can all be taken care of safely.
I'm sorry that you do not like what you are hearing, but this is the truth- from honest nurses who have been doing this for a very long time. I'm not sure why you are taking such offense to people venting. It is clear that you have your opinion on what nursing should be and I hope your dreams come true- I really do.
Do you read any of these posts? Because if you did, you'd see that I already answered that. (Want to know the truth? I actually like my job! How about that!)
I went into my job with realistic expectations.
I'm a nurse sweetie. I know how nursing really is. Not what some ideal of what nursing is. I didn't work in a general store before, I worked in a busy CVICU as a tech for a very long time.
And I thought I knew what it was all about when I was a student too. There's a reason we are all telling you the same thing.
Because there's what we thought, and there's the truth. Right now, you are in denial. That's ok. But while you are in your denial dreamland, don't attack us, the actual working nurses. Don't call us bitter. And don't you dare even assume that you know what it's really like.
The joy for us is that we know you will find out the truth. It will be a very hard fall. You're nursing career may not survive it. Lots of nurses can't.
The trick is to be humble. You should give it a try sometime. Because let me tell you, you will be humbled in nursing. And the bigger the 'holier than thou' attitude the bigger the humbling experience.
I'm still a nurse. I survived. I became realistic within these confines of what nursing REALLY is.
And you will have to as well in order to survive.
So, maybe you should take a step back, listen to what we are saying, and turn down the 'tude. Because it definitely won't fly in orientation. And then you will come back on here talking about how nurses eat their young.
:yeah:
RN1989
1,348 Posts
MichiganRN has done a fine job of telling it like it is. Since you want an older, more experienced nurse to chime in....I'll do so.
Doctors have always treated nurses like handmaidens. But they also treated them more professionally than throwing charts at them, as long as the nurse stayed in "her place". There has always been inequality, but you did not find the large amounts of unprofessional yelling and physical violence of surgeons throwing instruments at the scrub nurses like you find now.
Patients and families rarely treated nurses with the disrespect that is prevalent now. Many years ago, nurses took care of two to three times as many patients as floor nurses do now. Yet you did not find all the patients yelling and screaming, demanding the nurse to kiss their butts and get them colder water. They were grateful for the care that they got and waited their turn with much more patience than is seen today.
Years ago, nursing students did not speak out of turn about things of which they had no experience. They tried to keep their eyes and ears open and their mouths shut so as to absorb as much information as they could from experienced nurses.