Why do so many people insist that LPN'S AREN'T REAL NURSES!!??

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 23, 2006

I stand corrected. I thought about it when I was out shopping today. I apologize for jumping the gun.

Apology accepted. In a thread where were advocating respect I appreciate that. :wink2:

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 23, 2006

I'd like to see LPNs protect our title as NURSE because we ARE. The way this has gone is that any tech or aide can do what we do, and it is not fair to me.

I agree. Once upon a time it might have been a more technical/aide job description, but times have changed for the LPN.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 23, 2006

Just curious, where does the ANA say that LPNs are not nurses?

First, the ANA doesn't consider LPN/LVNs to be nurses for purposes of membership. You cannot be a member of the ANA as a LPN/LVN. How can it be the American NURSES Association if LPN/LVNs don't belong? Or rather, their exclusion speaks to their position on the issue.

2nd, their 1965 position paper on nursing education actively advocated for the ELIMINATION of the LPN/LVN role and reducing ADNs to THAT role. Sorry moderator that said to keep the ADN/BSN out of it: but it is on point. This issue began it's official sanction with the pivotal polarizing ANA concept of differentiation of practices. That ANA's model did not see LPN/LVN as being a part of that differentiation, or practice.

In fact, as all the new students can probably attest, it's one of the FIRST concepts taught in all RN programs, and even quite a few LPN/LVN programs. I'm not agreeing with it, just pointing out its source.

Why do so many people insist that LPN/LVN aren't real nurses? The ANA says so and it's taught in school. Now, most of us have enough real world experiences to dismiss some of the bunkam from school. But, there will always be true believers.

~faith,

Timothy.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 23, 2006

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I have not heard too many recent RNs mention this, but it may be because they don't want to raise issues. I cannot make a person accept me as a nurse, but what is difficult is the ones that show obvious disdain for LPNs, yet, seem to need our services. But, if they do not choose to use me to my fullest extent, then, it would be easy to say to 'let the RN be the nurse' and leave me out of it...but then, where does that leave the patient?

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 23, 2006

I agree. Once upon a time it might have been a more technical/aide job description, but times have changed for the LPN.

It seems that there are phases for the LPN...times where they are more needed than others. I don't see them phasing it out, though; not out of denial, but because there does not seem to be anyone interested in taking on the job for less pay since there is a shortage of nurses all around.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 23, 2006

It seems that there are phases for the LPN...times where they are more needed than others. I don't see them phasing it out, though; not out of denial, but because there does not seem to be anyone interested in taking on the job for less pay since there is a shortage of nurses all around.

The fact of the matter that here in my area where we have the 4th largest per capita number of seniors in the country, (learned that researching community health) our LTC system would collapse without LPNs..........period.

I honestly can't imagine LPNs being phased out in my lifetime here.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Sep 23, 2006

Does that mean CNA's are nurses too? The public doesnt know the difference with them either.

CNAs are a fundamentally valuable presence on the nursing team. Without them I would not be able to accomplish many of the feats I have encountered on the job.

Thank goodness for the CNAs. Thank goodness for the LPNs. Thank goodness for the RNs. Let's stop bringing up the petty technicalities and start acknowledging the importance of all nurses.

twotrees2 · Sep 23, 2006

Now, you can go to school on line, in RN to BSN completer programs. ...........................................
With no reward for my educational efforts at the bedside, I left and started my own business. When I am rewarded for my education, I will return to bedside nursing. .........................................
BSN as entry into practice would cut the number of individuals coming out of school, and by the law of supply and demand, salaries would go up. ........................
They love that nursing is split. And they are the ones who keep telling us, "you don't need to go back and become and RN. or BSN". And refuse to pay nurses more for higher education, and certifications. We need a unified educational entry into practice, that rewards nurses for their education, expertise, and skill. .........................................
There would also be available more time for "quality of life classes" for nurses, that there is no time for in ADN, and Diploma programs. Like Employment Law, Administrative Law, that provides nurses with the knowledge and skills, to protect themselves, legally, in the workplace. These changes would greatly improve nursing.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

one - to me i know a few who went "online" to get their bsn - scary - they do classes online and then have a few weeks clinical - what kind of training does one get with only a few weeks hands on? i just cant see it as complete and in depth as going to classes and more time in class and clinical with an instructor right there to help you get it right and ask questions right there in real time.

two - i am rewarded daily in my "bedside nursing" by my residents and families- sure it'd be nice to have more recognition from employers however - there is nothing like a thank you and hug from my residents and family.

three- depending on where you are the pay is up high - even for LPNs - heck - traveling LPNs make three times as much as me ( though i am on the low end of the pay-scale being in a small town - ) there is not going to be increased pay in these small towns - they simply cant afford it - what i see would happen is many of these small town places would fold up and close in a hurry.

four-in our area they are always encouraging ongoing schooling - never have i ever heard the opposite

five - honestly - i dont miss the "quality of life classes" as you put it - very easy to keep myself protected - do my job right and to the best of my ability, make sure if i do not know something to ask and / or look it up an learn it so i do it right, and keep an adequate insurance policy in the event of trouble lol - personally i have rarely in 21 yrs of varying nursing roles seen much trouble- 3 lawsuits on docs that turned out the doc won. never in our area have i heard of or seen any nurses or administrative or anyone else implicated in lawsuits - now that doesnt mean it hasn't happened as i am sure they would keep something like that quiet - but i dont feel that those classes would have helped me in my career - and over the yrs i have learned a lot of that all on my own with reading and talking about stuff and i am comfortable with the way i am.

just my opinions.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 23, 2006

The fact of the matter that here in my area where we have the 4th largest per capita number of seniors in the country, (learned that researching community health) our LTC system would collapse without LPNs..........period.
I honestly can't imagine LPNs being phased out in my lifetime here.

I can't either, really.

twotrees2 · Sep 23, 2006

Write yourself a memo...
You are the type they are speaking about. I scored a 33 on my ACT test, you? I just chose to have a child and then CNA, ER tech, LPN, RN. This is why I worked in the PACU, under an anesthesiologist, and not under someone who loved to micromanage.

gads - i barley remeber even taking the act - let alone my score lol. those micromanagers really are annoying arent they lol. we have a few and i just let em go about their micromanaging and keep far far away lol.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 23, 2006

one - to me i know a few who went "online" to get their bsn - scary - they do classes online and then have a few weeks clinical - what kind of training does one get with only a few weeks hands on? i just cant see it as complete and in depth as going to classes and more time in class and clinical with an instructor right there to help you get it right and ask questions right there in real time.

I don't think you can get initial BSN licensure online. Those programs are for previous nurses that already have tons of real-time, clinical experience.

So, your point might be valid if comparing it to initial preparation to practice. But, that is not reality. So, you are making apples to oranges comparisons.

It is NOT on point when discussing students that already have the 'clinical' time to greatly benefit from the additional classwork. These programs are about expanding already existing knowledge and credentials; not to create them from scratch.

~faith,

Timothy.

twotrees2 · Sep 23, 2006

Dear Hearts and Gentle People, let us not stray from the path set by the original poster. The BSN entry debate actually has little to do with LPNs not feeling respected.
One should not have to defend their choice of career. I have a dear friend who is a plumber, he was a nurse and said he gets more solice helping someone with a leaky pipe than he ever felt being a nurse........
Now that's a shame. Not that he is a plumber but that someone made him uncomfortable in his former job. He makes about the same as he did as an RN and feels fulfilled. Think about it. Someone (s) MADE him feel bad.
SO no more BSN/ADN/LPN on this thread PLEASE!!!
Oh and BTW I think LPNs are NURSES-just like me.

yikes - where does he live - honestly any plumber i know makes three times as much as any nurse paid highly in the biggest facilities around here. my cousin who is a plumber makes 65 dollars and hour with a min of one hour ( even if it takes him 15 min - and that's a good rate of pay compared to nursing ) i told him i think i work with the wrong type of plumbing lol.