Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[AngelKissed857, BSN, RN]

I would love some advice on becoming unionized. I'm in a dialysis clinic, our corporate structure includes a LOT of clinics. We're seriously underpaid. Every single nurse I work with says they absolutely support being n a union. How do I go about getting us unionized?

[BrentRN, PhD]

12 hours ago, AngelKissed857 said:

I would love some advice on becoming unionized. I'm in a dialysis clinic, our corporate structure includes a LOT of clinics. We're seriously underpaid. Every single nurse I work with says they absolutely support being n a union. How do I go about getting us unionized?

There is a group dedicated to helping you through the process called National Nurses United. You can also contact any local union such as the Teamsters to get information on the process. Some states make forming a union more difficult. Employers will be upset. You will hear "we're family", "you'll pay too much in dues", and "you won't have flexibility".

There are pros and cons to unionizing. Overall, most employees are happy to be in a union due to the protections it gives. Without one you are on your own for any issue from pay, work hours, workload, or errors.

Employers have done an outstanding job making unions seem scary. They lose control of employees when there is a union. A high percentage of the population has bought into their propaganda.

Some employers will do everything they can legally get away with to discourage unions. You have to be prepared for that. They can make an organizers life miserable if they want, and they usually want.

Good luck.

[Guest957596]

I'm against unions because they create another chain of command. So it's possible to fall out of favor with your employer and the union. Unions also tend to negate the benefits of a meritocracy as everyone is lumped in together. Also unions tend to be liberal politically and don't like conservative voices. National Nurses United is one of these organizations that are extremely liberal. I have gotten several texts from them asking me to support liberal causes. Don't know how they got my number!

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

I rotated through different hospitals in any given week. Since I was not a hospital employee I could make dispassionate observation and the unionized nurses definitely tended to stay longer because of increased job satisfaction. They were, however, all represented by the SNA and therefore all RN's. The services provided by the union were dedicated to the needs of a profession and some services were provided to all nurses regardless of union membership.

[egg122 NP, MSN, APRN]

I was expecting to really support unions when I started my last position. As a non-union, but non-management, member of nursing staff I have to say it was a rude awakening. It was the most hostile and worst patient care environment I have ever seen. The union employees weren't even getting decent pay and benefits relative to the area. Staffing ratios were 1:10 at times. The delegates seemed more concerned with getting their own and would even bully other union members. Patient care and outcomes was what you would expect in this type of an environment. There was no sense of nursing professionalism or pride in work. I could not get out of there fast enough and plan to avoid working in any union environment in the future.

[BrentRN, PhD]

9 hours ago, egg122 NP said:

I could not get out of there fast enough and plan to avoid working in any union environment in the future.

I would say that one experience good or bad should not determine how a nurse chooses to join a unionized hospital. I always suggest speaking to some of the nurses of the unit you would be working for the pros and cons of the working environment. This goes for union and nonunion work. It can be hard to get a true picture on a recruiter's tour.

I remember one place that really had me ready to work. After the interview I went back to the unit and spoke privately with some of the nurses. To a person they told me to run away, and they outlined the problems. It saved me a lot of grief.

[Xance]

On 6/15/2019 at 11:42 PM, tacticool said:

I'm against unions because they create another chain of command. So it's possible to fall out of favor with your employer and the union. Unions also tend to negate the benefits of a meritocracy as everyone is lumped in together. Also unions tend to be liberal politically and don't like conservative voices. National Nurses United is one of these organizations that are extremely liberal. I have gotten several texts from them asking me to support liberal causes. Don't know how they got my number!

Based upon your mention of liberal several times in your post I will assume you are conservative. You understand that no union in their right mind would support a conservative voice as generally conservatives want to weaken/eliminate unions altogether so they they can take advantage of employees. Not all employers do this, some in fact are quite supportive of their employees and stand by them and listen to what they have to say. Those are excellent employers and they exist in all industries.

However those employers are unfortunately not the norm, most employers will only protect the bottom line and ignore their increasing turnover rates due to their uncaring nature. Eventually these employers will have an ingrained culture of apathy towards employees and healthcare isn't like other industries where companies have a low barrier of entry so a competitor could easily emerge. No, healthcare is an expensive business so those companies know they can get away with treating their employees badly, simply because they know that no competitor can easily swoop in due to the nature of the healthcare industry.

If you want to join a union and continue to advocate for conservative ideals regarding unions, know that you have joined a union and turn around to advocate for their weakening and/or destruction. I have met several people in my own union who are far-right conservatives who absolutely hate this union and what the union supports on the left. They simultaneously love the benefits unions provide and are quite defensive of losing their benefits but their conservative beliefs lead them to actively support their own unions destruction. Ask yourself this question; would you rather have a job that is protected from sudden unlawful or undeserved termination while ignoring what the union bosses tell you about political stuff? Or would you rather be in that so-called meritocracy who will pay you a mint for your skills somehow negotiated by yourself better than an entire union of tens or hundreds of thousands can negotiate for and you'd be the first terminated when the hospital cuts costs as you'll have a high salary?

[Guest957596]

You understand that no union in their right mind would support a conservative voice as generally conservatives want to weaken/eliminate unions altogether so they they can take advantage of employees.

Conservatives, for the most part, don't want unions; that is true. What is not true is that conservatives want to "take advantage of employees". As of now there are 27 right-to-work states and is growing, partially due to anti-unionism.

The percentage of private sector unionization is 6.4% while government is 35.3%. And the percentage is expected to decline further. If unions were so great, why the exceedingly low participation rate?

I believe your conservative friends are hypocrites for two reasons: First, you don't join a group and then seek it to destroy it from within. That is a total lack of character and integrity. Second, never compromise your principles for a gained benefit. Your principles are more important.

Yes, I'd rather be in the meritocracy even with the possibility of being let go because I had a high salary. No one owes me anything. And unions negotiate the salaries which means the slackers, average workers, etc., get paid what the superchargers get.

[Guest957596]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:19 PM, BrentRN said:

There is a group dedicated to helping you through the process called National Nurses United. You can also contact any local union such as the Teamsters to get information on the process. Some states make forming a union more difficult. Employers will be upset. You will hear "we're family", "you'll pay too much in dues", and "you won't have flexibility".

There are pros and cons to unionizing. Overall, most employees are happy to be in a union due to the protections it gives. Without one you are on your own for any issue from pay, work hours, workload, or errors.

Employers have done an outstanding job making unions seem scary. They lose control of employees when there is a union. A high percentage of the population has bought into their propaganda.

Some employers will do everything they can legally get away with to discourage unions. You have to be prepared for that. They can make an organizers life miserable if they want, and they usually want.

Good luck.

National Nurses United texted me for a donation and to ask for support for Gillum as he ran against DeSantis in Florida for governor. This is what bothers me. Unions push politics.

[guest974915]

1 hour ago, tacticool said:

You understand that no union in their right mind would support a conservative voice as generally conservatives want to weaken/eliminate unions altogether so they they can take advantage of employees.

Conservatives, for the most part, don't want unions; that is true. What is not true is that conservatives want to "take advantage of employees". As of now there are 27 right-to-work states and is growing, partially due to anti-unionism.

The percentage of private sector unionization is 6.4% while government is 35.3%. And the percentage is expected to decline further. If unions were so great, why the exceedingly low participation rate?

I believe your conservative friends are hypocrites for two reasons: First, you don't join a group and then seek it to destroy it from within. That is a total lack of character and integrity. Second, never compromise your principles for a gained benefit. Your principles are more important.

Yes, I'd rather be in the meritocracy even with the possibility of being let go because I had a high salary. No one owes me anything. And unions negotiate the salaries which means the slackers, average workers, etc., get paid what the superchargers get.

No doubt unions have their disadvantages, one of which you and many others have mentioned-their protection of poorly performing employees. However, without union representation, we as nurses have very little voice or recourse against the unethical practices of some of large healthcare conglomerates (hospital systems). I suspicion that you might echo a different sentiment if you had been a long time, loyal employee of one of these hospitals, only to be forced out after many years so that they may hire into your place a graduate nurse that they can pay a considerably lower hourly wage to. Happens every day

[Guest957596]

The Navy told me to leave after 26 years. I wanted to stay forever!

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

Even those of you without unions benefit from unions. That is because one way that employers resist unions is by providing reasonable pay, benefits, and working conditions. The fact that they have to worry about unions creates an unseen incentive for them to refrain from the most extreme exploitation.