Why so many fail out of our program?

Cinqly, BSN, RN · Mar 1, 2008

I just finished nursing school... actually yesterday. I keep reading here that A students and 4.0 students seem to be failing nursing school. I was one of those A students. I was a software engineer for many years and decided to go to college to become an RN. I will be graduating with a 3.13 GPA. That stinks for me, but I will tell you, that most 4.0 students have great memories and can retain alot of information for tests. The problem is, critically thinking. I had the hardest time with this part of learning, because one answer doesn't fit all. Critical thinking cannot be taught to somebody simply. It is an acquired learning that takes experience and patience.... and your patient's lives are relying on you for it. I think the show "House" gives a pretty good example of this type of thinking. If you notice, most of the people trying to get a slot on his team are brilliant... but only the most superb "critical thinkers" will make it.
Your teachers have to weed out the people that are unlikely to make it through the N-CLEX the first attempt. The schools accreditation relies on that. It is not the best system, but it is a reality.

Congratulations on finishing school! Next stop: NCLEX

I agree with you here. I am a great student and did very well in school until I got to nursing school. It's a whole new ball game! You think to yourself at the beginning, "Critical thinking...that's not so hard!" But the reality is that you can be great at memorizing information and implementing skills on their own, but you have to have the ability to synthesize everything together and apply it critically in situations. I had a difficult time at first (and still do) really pulling together all of the information. It's a struggle, and sometimes that's a hard pill to swallow because I've always been such a great "student" in the past. However, I want to be a great nurse, so I've got to start thinking like a nurse. That's why the care plans are so important. That's why the tests are so hard. You have to be able to look at a complicated situation, assess, diagnose, prioritize, and implement. Even now, in my second semester, I'm struggling to really synthesize. It takes a lot of work, a lot of dedication, and a desire to persevere. I just hope I can get it together and make it through school and become (hopefully) a great nurse!

Also, I just like to point out that there is a difference between a teacher and an educator. Teachers just regurgitate info. and can't put things in a way that student's can understand. They make things hard just to be hard because that's "how it is". Educator's help students to learn, they are patient, and they help student's to help themselves. They teach you to problem solve, and help you to develop critical thinking. I can tell you that my program has both, and I definately prefer learning from the latter! However, even an educator can't squeeze water out of a stone. Student's have to put the effort in. Anyway, that' s my :twocents: . Good luck to everyone! :up:

sneakymom2011 · Mar 1, 2008

You wrote >

It most certainly does suck. I've been in school for 8 weeks. We've lost 4 people in that time. Started with 28, we're now down to 24. The first 2 people, it didn't bother me. One wasn't taking it seriously, the other one said "There's just too much reading". The last 2 though bothered me much more. The first one was in my clinical group, I had worked with this person a couple of times, and felt kind of sad when we found out they dropped.

The last person we lost a week ago. And this one REALLY bothers me, the person would be a really good nurse (and I wasn't the only person who said so).

I need to just get over it so I can get myself through school.

Like2bFrisky · Mar 1, 2008

we all say the same thing no matter where you go. we has 23/47 make it to semester. its all about the right way to take the tests. master that and your worries will be over.

Ms Kylee · Mar 1, 2008

My class started with 45 a year ago. We are now down to 26. Most either dropped or failed, but one was in a very bad car accident and lost too much time. The good thing is, she will come back to continue. The bad thing is, she won't graduate with us, and she was very well liked.

I must be strange because I didn't do well in college (just barely graduated), but I'm thriving in Nursing school. I went to the University in which I graduated from on Thursday to pick up transcripts, and the Registrar's office secretary said to me "you can't apply for a scholarship, your grades aren't good." I smiled and said that they weren't good at the University, but I have a 94% in Nursing School. Her jaw dropped open and I swear it smacked the floor.

Yes, it is hard.. but it's challenging me in ways I never knew I could be challenged. It's rewarding because I can see the patients be sick one day and so much better the next. I'm thinking entirely differently.

I'm sleep deprived and stressed (so much I couldn't even study for my Maternity/Peds final). BUT.. I love it.

You really need to stay on top of your reading and study a lot. Good instuctors help a lot too. Ones that can't be bothered only make the journey more awful.

I really wish I would have done this 25 years ago....

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Mar 1, 2008

From what I've seen and heard, it seems to be the ADN-RN programs that have a brutal weeding-out process. The BSN programs seem to focus on retention and assuming that students are professionals.

These are overall impressions. Individual programs, of course, may vary.

manofcare · Mar 1, 2008

Go to the website for any one of your schools and look for the NCLEX pass rate. Schools have to have a certain pass rate to keep their accreditation. The course is taught to keep pass rates high enough. In my school the faculty and administration weeds out students because they can not pass the NCLEX. They do not aspire to raise the quality of the student. The pass rate is their only concern. Sad but true.

APBT mom, LPN, RN · Mar 2, 2008

Go to the website for any one of your schools and look for the NCLEX pass rate. Schools have to have a certain pass rate to keep their accreditation. The course is taught to keep pass rates high enough. In my school the faculty and administration weeds out students because they can not pass the NCLEX. They do not aspire to raise the quality of the student. The pass rate is their only concern. Sad but true.

That's what I was going to say. If you can't find the pass rate on your schools website then go to the BON for your state and search. Here they break then up by what program you're in.

Like2bFrisky · Mar 2, 2008

do I look at my schools website or the state my school is in?

APBT mom, LPN, RN · Mar 2, 2008

do I look at my schools website or the state my school is in?

I'd look at the state your schools in because there you'll know no ones fudging the percentage and it's up to date.

jjjoy, LPN · Mar 2, 2008

Nursing school asks tough exam questions because nursing is a problem solving profession with lives on the line.
After nursing school, we will experience the following:
A patients sutured abdominal incision is going to split open before your eyes. What do you do?
A patient is standing in the hall, and then topples. The loudest sound is when his skull smacks the tile. What do you do?
A patient starts crying because she has a terminal illness and her children don't come visit her. What do you do?
We really are going to have to calculate drug dosages. All the time. If we get it wrong, we might lose our license, or kill someone and go to jail.
A patient is going to vomit feces. What do you do?
A million other things that I would never, ever even consider possible are going to happen. What will I do?
In every case, there will be a right thing to do, and a million wrong things to do, and everyone around us will expect us to know the difference. The test questions are driving me crazy, but I really, really want to make the right choices when it's just me and my patients.

If nursing test questions addressed such issues, I'd agree. But many nursing test questions DON'T address such issues. Instead of asking "what does it mean when a patient vomits feces and what are your priorities?" a nursing test might ask "A patient has vomited feces - what do you do first?" a. Call the doctor b. Clean up the vomit c. Comfort the patient d. Document the amount and color of the vomit. Ummm, ALL of those are important if one is to use their critical thinking skills. Was this expected or not? Has this happened before? Did the patient vomit into a basin or is it all over their bedclothes? Does the patient seem anxious or upset? When it says 'comfort the patient' does that mean calmly telling them 'We're taking care of this' while you address the issue or does it mean sitting down and holding their hand for 5 minutes? Does "Clean up the vomit" mean quickly wiping the edge of their mouth and pulling off the top cover of the bed? Or does it mean taking several minutes to completely change linens? My example is probably full of holes, but I hope you understand the gist of what I'm saying.

Why can't questions be more straight forward? "A patient vomits feces. What does this mean? A. the patient probably has a bowel obstruction. B. the patient is constipated C. the patient is NPO D. the patient needs an antiemetic." Or how about this? "A patient vomits feces. what is your first priority? A. Call the doctor. This is probably a bowel obstruction and is an emergency. B. Clean up the vomit and comfort the patient. This can be very distressing to the patient but it isn't life-threatening. Your first priority is making sure the patient is clean and calm. C. Check the MAR for PRN orders. The patient is constipated and you may give a laxative if ordered. D. Your first priority is to check for blood in the vomitus. If there is no blood in it, document it and let the MD know about it when he/she comes in."

NCLEX-style questions are tricky because you can't be sure exactly what the point of the question is. You have to learn how to *read* the test questions in order to do well and that has nothing to do with one's nursing knowledge.

usadog · Dec 7, 2008

I know I hear how hard nursing school is I know because Im in it. Yeah it is hard yeah theres a lot of work but do nursing schools really need to fail out or "weed out" so many students. In our class only 11 out of 29 students are passing. Why is this normal? And I see on these threads other NS also have this problem. Many of my friends are studying so hard putting so much money into this program, and failing because the questions on the test were so tricky. Why cant these nursing schools and nursing instuctors teach students how to be better critical thinkers and teach students how to take these tests. Why does this have to be normal that so many students are failing just because of these tests. What about more hands on training and more experience to develop critical thinking. If someone really want to be a nurse and put all there effort and hard work into it, it should show. So these nursing tests really determine if we will be great nurses? What happened to experience doesnt that teach critical thinking. Why do Nursing programs or my nursing program feel like they are just trying to weed out so many students because there arent enough teachers? I swear I feel like when I asked my teacher a question after class she is thinking "All right ask what you need to ask and hurry up because I dont have time for this." And then when they ask in class "Does any one have any questions?" There are so many questions I have for them that I cant even think of one. All Im saying is that I dont like the way our program is ran and others as well. Is it just my program or are other programs like mine? Im just so burned out right now I am passing with high C's but I feel bad for my fellow students who seem to be studying just as hard as me but cant seem to pass these test. Who's really failing the instuctors or the students? Sorry if I sound pesimistic but why do things have to be this way?

usadog · Dec 7, 2008

i just dropped off the accelerated second degree program. it is not because of my acedemic score, it is due to my clinical performance.

i am a straight "a" student and had been a physician for more than ten years in another country. the ob professor failed me because of my communication skills and not following her instruction.　i heard there were 30% student failed the med-surg-ob. i cried everyday and worried about the problem that finally happened. my advisor told me i could send an appeal to the dean. however, will the dean change my clinical score?

i feel very frustrated and do not know if i should repeat the course next year.　

is there any program accept a failure student as a candidate?

　 :cry: :scrying: :cry: