Why the high drop out rate of nursing students?

[newhere_noname]

Here is my question for educators.

I'm wondering how to decrease the drop out rate in nursing schools but I first need to know what the students reasons are for dropping out.

My thought is that some students apply because they want to be a nurse but like most of the general public don't know exactly what a nurse does besides follow MD orders, administer medications and make patients comfortable. They are surprised when they find out how much more is involved including the extra heavy load of coursework/study time and figured it was more then they bargained for and leave. Am I way off base here or is there a percentage of student's that fit this category?

What are the more common reasons for student leaving school?

What is the drop out rate at your school?

Thanks, Karen

[talbrecht]

talbrecht, your breathtaking wrong-headedness about the nature of teaching and learning has caused me to break my customary rule about never addressing student comments on this, the educator's forum.

"a teacher is just suppose to teach, not judge. i just dont get it."

no, you most certainly don't. a teacher is supposed to teach and judge. teach the material to the best of his/her ability, and judge whether the student took the time and effort to learn the skills and information (and will therefore be safe in nursing practice).

it is shameful to think that someone who doesnt even know you has control over your career and livelyhood, it really makes me want to persue regulations about this instead of nursing!

oh, we know you, all right. all too well, sometimes.

-we know the students who "don't have time to read the book" or "don't have time to complete those

online exercises"

-we know the students who come late, leave early, and text or nap throughout class

-we know the students who turn in work that is poorly done, late, or incomplete

-we know the students who come to the clinical area with preparation that is incomplete or non-existent

persue (it is spelled pursue, by the way) regulations? be my guest. i can assure you that members of governing bodies will ask themselves if they want simply more nurses to take care of them and their loved ones, or more good nurses. it is not all about numbers, i assure you.

you should ask yourself why you have the audacity (that is how that is spelled) to think that "everyone who wants to be a nurse should be to be one, and if they don't, it is the instructor's fault!". i want to be a prima ballerina, but i lack the talent, the balance, and the physical attributes to be one. do you think my failure, if i attempted this, would be the fault of the ballet mistress/master?

use your energy to correct the problems you have encountered in school. try to acquire some logical thought processes, as they will help you in clinical practice.

now i am back to "ignore" mode for student posts in this forum.

:di am a good student, i attend every class, read the book over and over and over, read the study guide, complete every assignment on time, never am late always early, i am wide awake always asking questions, always prepared for clinicals infact often share with other students who are not prepared. i even print out the power point and go over that repeating it like flash cards. oh yes, i also make flash cards. i am dream student.

i am awesome at patient care with 23 yrs experiance as a ma, cardiovascular tech and radiology technoligist.

i have a foundation that most rn student dont come with, my instructor tells me that perhaps that is getting in the way of better grades. i only get b's and c's and rarely see an a. on subjective material i am lucky to get 40/50. in practiciums i get 100%. i failed pharm by 1% based on math, got 30/50 and asked for help never getting it. i had a crappie teacher. i give 100% to my program and just dont feel that my instructors do. should i not be allowed to be an rn? maybe because i did not do good on the math final i should leave the medical field ?

i did excellant on my test, practium and research paper, on many of the math quizes got 10/10 or even 7/10 but that was because i sought extra help from students!

[Whispera, MSN, RN]

Talbrecht, it seems you've had a very negative experience with your school, and that's a terrible shame. My heart hurts for you. However, please don't assume your situation is the same as everyone else's situation. I understand the need to vent. We can't fix things for you though. If you continue with your school, as it looks like you will, you could consider addressing your concerns after graduation. I realize it can be risky during school to address such things. I wish you luck and joy in your future education and as a nurse.

[talbrecht]

Talbrecht, it seems you've had a very negative experience with your school, and that's a terrible shame. My heart hurts for you. However, please don't assume your situation is the same as everyone else's situation. I understand the need to vent. We can't fix things for you though. If you continue with your school, as it looks like you will, you could consider addressing your concerns after graduation. I realize it can be risky during school to address such things. I wish you luck and joy in your future education and as a nurse.

Thanks, many of my friends are experiancing problems. Two have given up and will not become a nurses.

In my current study group from last semester I have to repeat one class, one passed all, one is leaving the

school for another and the other is changing majors. One person out of all had no conflict, another was told when she asked for help to quit her job and the other was told to stop going to church. When I asked for help I was referred to the counciling center to be tested for a learning disability and told that I should ask my advisor for help or attend SI sessions. The teacher did not suggest one thing to improve my scores.

I hopefully can get through this program but worry alot. I hear so many other students talking down their classes too. :uhoh21:

[mind_numbed]

I started with 86 ppl in my class. Last semester was my first. At break, we were down to 39 ppl. Between failing classes and just not being able to handle the stress is why ppl are gone from mine. But I really believe that nursing school is designed for the majority to fail. Short class that hold weight in the program cause problems. By the time you know your hurting in a class, its too late to bring it up. The average graduating class is about 20-25 out of 80-90 starting. Something is wrong with that. I think that nursing should not be a two year course at community colleges. I think that would result in a higher passing rate.

[mind_numbed]

talbrecht, your breathtaking wrong-headedness about the nature of teaching and learning has caused me to break my customary rule about never addressing student comments on this, the educator's forum.

"a teacher is just suppose to teach, not judge. i just dont get it."

no, you most certainly don't. a teacher is supposed to teach and judge. teach the material to the best of his/her ability, and judge whether the student took the time and effort to learn the skills and information (and will therefore be safe in nursing practice).

it is shameful to think that someone who doesnt even know you has control over your career and livelyhood, it really makes me want to persue regulations about this instead of nursing!

oh, we know you, all right. all too well, sometimes.

-we know the students who "don't have time to read the book" or "don't have time to complete those

online exercises"

-we know the students who come late, leave early, and text or nap throughout class

-we know the students who turn in work that is poorly done, late, or incomplete

-we know the students who come to the clinical area with preparation that is incomplete or non-existent

persue (it is spelled pursue, by the way) regulations? be my guest. i can assure you that members of governing bodies will ask themselves if they want simply more nurses to take care of them and their loved ones, or more good nurses. it is not all about numbers, i assure you.

you should ask yourself why you have the audacity (that is how that is spelled) to think that "everyone who wants to be a nurse should be to be one, and if they don't, it is the instructor's fault!". i want to be a prima ballerina, but i lack the talent, the balance, and the physical attributes to be one. do you think my failure, if i attempted this, would be the fault of the ballet mistress/master?

use your energy to correct the problems you have encountered in school. try to acquire some logical thought processes, as they will help you in clinical practice.

now i am back to "ignore" mode for student posts in this forum.

i would like to say that to you valmor that it is not always the teacher's fault when a student fails. all of the things that you said are exactly why some fail out. with that said, i think that some nursing instructors are exactly as your repliee stated. do i think that anyone can be a nurse, absolutley not. i do, however, feel that many potentially great nurses fail because of instructors, some instructors.

i hate to be forward, but you sound as if you have been accused in the past for things such as this. not saying that is the case, just sounds like it for your defensiveness. i think that instructors should not judge. critique is what they should be doing. there is a difference. critique would let them know what they are doing wrong and how they can improve. this seems to be something that some instructors lack. instructors are not only there to teach and guide students, but also to motivate them. i do much better in classes in which i like the teacher. you know that saying "you can catch more flys with honey than vinager," there is a reason it is a saying. it is the truth. an instructor can captivate their audience, even on boring subjects, if the student body like them. i could safely say that there would be a drop out decrease of 25% if some instructors had a change of attitude. after a poor attitude is established, respect is lost, and that goes both ways. show me an instructor that expresses and shows that they want their students do well, and i will show a vast improvement in passing rates in nursing programs.

[talbrecht]

I would like to say that to you valmor that it is not always the teacher's fault when a student fails. All of the things that you said are exactly why some fail out. With that said, I think that some nursing instructors are exactly as your repliee stated. Do I think that anyone can be a nurse, absolutley not. I do, however, feel that many potentially great nurses fail because of instructors, some instructors.

I hate to be forward, but you sound as if you have been accused in the past for things such as this. Not saying that is the case, just sounds like it for your defensiveness. I think that instructors should NOT judge. Critique is what they should be doing. There is a difference. Critique would let them know what they are doing wrong AND how they can improve. This seems to be something that some instructors lack. Instructors are not only there to teach and guide students, but also to motivate them. I do much better in classes in which I like the teacher. You know that saying "you can catch more flys with honey than vinager," there is a reason it is a saying. It is the truth. An instructor can captivate their audience, even on boring subjects, if the student body like them. I could safely say that there would be a drop out decrease of 25% if some instructors had a change of attitude. After a poor attitude is established, respect is lost, and that goes both ways. Show me an instructor that expresses and shows that they want their students do well, and I will show a vast improvement in passing rates in nursing programs.

:crying2:Bravo, I so agree. There is no nurturing in the programs, the professors across the board are full of vinager and offer zero help, they are harsh and judgemental using their authority to block the door to nursing. They only want a select few book worms with blonde hair that are 19 yrs old and the rest are doing other 2nd choice careers. Meanwhile as these book worms graduate they lack street smarts of balance to allow them to function on their own without books. Many of them graduate as nurses and hate it.

It takes a good teacher to mold the book information with the practical skills. The instructors are playing god and lack the insight of the facts and the harm they themselves are causing society. So many people out there do not see why there is a nursing shortage. It is not because people lack the desire and determination, the word needs to get out before there are changes. We are in a severe nursing shortage that eventually will cause harm to society because of the games these institutions are allowed to play out. I hope more people are made aware of this huge problem:scrying:

[Whispera, MSN, RN]

As a past nursing instructor it irks me that you seem to be saying that all instructors are twits...please be careful of your stereotypes! I've had oodles of awesome instructors in my schooling and have been told I'm not so bad either. I see that there are some instructors that could use an overhaul, but not all!

[Lstcats]

Do you really think stopping a know it all from being a nurse will save lives?Preventing a person from becoming a nurse does not save the world. Many people die during their care because they are ill. Nurses are in place often just to comfort towards the end or often trying to save them in vain. The system in place depapers nurses that practice neglectful and often they are imprisioned. If he was so horrid how did he pass NCLEX? How did he get and keep a job? I am having a really hard time understanding the ohdassity of teachers preventing people from becoming nurses. A teacher is just suppose to teach, not judge. I just dont get it. It is shameful to think that someone who doesnt even know you has control over your career and livelyhood, it really makes me want to persue regulations about this instead of nursing! :redbeathe

Wow, :redpinkhe this is a loaded paragraph. I disagree with your sentence "Do you really think stopping a know it all from being a nurse will save lives?" In this case it would have since this new nurse was responisble for two deaths. And, yes failing someone is the appropriate thing to do because "safety" is our main concern in nursing. If a student can not practice safely (including all apects of the nursing process) then they should and do fail. I would think you know and understand this.There is an evaluation tool and if they can't meet the standard then they can not go on to the next level. This may be your thought process of judging so, yes instructors have to judge. It is their job. A better word would be evaluate. We uphold a nursing license to practice in our state according to ANA standards. If someone breaks the code of ethics and is "negligent" homocide then yes, they go to jail just like someone else who is responsible for a death of someone. What about someone who hits and kills someone on the road. Some of them go to jail because it is the word "negligence" that is a key factor in regards to the law which includes any health care not just nursing. I guess if you don't like having a clinical instructor than you should not go to nursing school. Also, you will have preceptors and nurse managers who "judge" you on your performance. ARe you stating that you are against this also?

[Lstcats]

Talbrecht,

I think you should find another nursing school. You seem so unhappy. Please know that your experience is not equal to that of all colleges in the US. You shouldn't make blanket statements and generalize all instructors based on your school. Switch schools or switch careers. Do it for your own piece of mind.

[Lstcats]

I started with 86 ppl in my class. Last semester was my first. At break, we were down to 39 ppl. Between failing classes and just not being able to handle the stress is why ppl are gone from mine. But I really believe that nursing school is designed for the majority to fail. Short class that hold weight in the program cause problems. By the time you know your hurting in a class, its too late to bring it up. The average graduating class is about 20-25 out of 80-90 starting. Something is wrong with that. I think that nursing should not be a two year course at community colleges. I think that would result in a higher passing rate.

It is unfortunate:cry: but maybe better in the long run for them to fail out of school. I know of schools where the nursing student NCLEX pass rate is 60-70%. So, what did that school do wrong? Why did 20-30% of the class fail their boards? It could be that they just passed the students along or changed questions on the test to please students. It happens. Just say I know for fact and leave it at that. A community college is always "two" years. It is fast paced and a lot to learn. Nursing is not for the faint hearted. You do have to give up a lot to be a nursing student. :no:Also, as an instructor I have had to give up a lot too because of the need to correct all the clinical paperwork and prep work for each clinical day.

[truern]

May I say as a former student that the instructors I learned the MOST from were the hardest and expected the most from the students!! I didn't expect instructors to hold my hand thru school....as an adult I was responsible for my own learning just as I was responsible for being prepared for lecture and clinicals. IMO there's no room in NS for excuses, whining, and blaming instructors. Time to take a good hard look in the mirror when you're finding fault with your whole NS experience.

As always, just MHO.

[Goodoldnurse]

To the students posting to the educator board:

I understand the frustration. It is ultimately your responsibility to learn, comprehend the content and practice safe nursing. That is our job, producing safe and competant nurses. If you cannot do math, you may make a mistake in dispensing medication and cause a death. If you cannot spell, you may make the mistake of writing a medication that is incorrect and cause serious side effects or a death. Nursing is an exact science.

Not all instructors are bad. Many, myself included, talk with every student I teach that make an exam grade that is below our "C". I also talk with any student that has a concern or that I am concerned about. It wish many did not have to work full time or that their outside lives did not take up so much of their time. This keeps them from concentrating as fully as they need on the content.

In my home, I want the best worker available, doing the best they can. In my car, I would want the best people possible to have built it, giving it their best effort. I expect that from a nurse caring for a loved one or myself when I care for a patient. All we ask is that you do your best also. NCLEX-RN does not grade on a curve!

To the instructors (faculty),

Keep up the good work! We have a great responsibility and most of us take it seriously. Keep encouraging those students! Each time a student "gets it" I am rewarded!

Have a great day!