Members in the community forum are discussing the phenomenon of dying patients reaching up or exhibiting behaviors that may suggest communication with deceased loved ones. Some users attribute this to biological processes, while others believe it may have spiritual significance. The discussion also touches on the importance of compassion and understanding towards dying patients, regardless of personal beliefs.
I've noticed that when it gets toward the end for people (not necessarily the VERY end, but maybe the last month or so when they have started really going downhill) they will hold their arms upward once in awhile and then let them fall at their sides.
I've seen this a lot. My father-in-law did it, too. He would have his eyes closed and raise his arms in the air as if he were reaching up.
I would wager that "heaven" being commonly associated with 'up' has something to do with it. Lots of metabolic and chemical processes going on, a dying person's need to feel that there is something of an after life... lots of reasons. Interesting question, but I don't think anecdotal experiences (as many as there may be) prove that any such place exists.
I agree. In the (anecdotal) examples I am thinking of, there were no cries to Aunt Beulah or God or anyone else. A lot of times, these people are nonresponsive or appear to be in their own little world. Not everyone who is a nonbeliever has a death bed conversion, yet this behavior is similar among many dying people I have been around whether they believe or not.
Funny, though, the most religious woman I have ever seen died recently in the nursing home. She did not, in fact, exhibit this behavior. She did not have any death bed visions. She was not hysterical with fear but right up until she lost consciousness she did not want to be alone and would tell us she did not want to die. She died quietly and uneventfully with no hint of seeing anything on the other side.
I don't think Carl Sagan had all the answers to life but I agree with something he said: better to know the hard truth than a comforting fantasy. I don't know why a lot of them raise their arms, but I have pretty much ruled out any spiritual reasons. It's just not something you can measure and verify. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but the more charlatans I see the more cynical I get and I've yet to see any credible, concrete proof of an after life.
But that is another topic.
Thank you for the replies, though. I appreciate the time people are taking to give their insight.
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
It is okay to be a nonbeliever, but it is also okay to be a believer. I don't think anyone was really trying to offer proof as much as just their own point of view. For those with faith, that is all the proof they need, and for those who are not inclined toward religiousness or spirituality, all the proof in the world won't induce faith in any case, as I doubt it would be recognized. What is a comforting fantasy to some is concrete evidence to another. :)
When FIL was dying-he kept talking about a friend from his youth and married life. Would say that he talked to him on the phone....FIL passed on the same day of his friends death. He also kept trying to get up TO GO-when asked where? He'd just say it was time to go! In addition, he too exhibited that arms raising/head raising behavior. REACHING FOR PARADISE? I don't know, I'd like to think so.
Specializes in ER/Nuero/PHN/LTC/Skilled/Alzheimer's.
I saw the raising arms thing and calling out for dead (or absent) family members quite a lot in LTC and NH. My own grandmother who was A& Ox3 right up until she passed, woke up at one point asking for her grandfather, who had been dead for decades. It scared me at the time because I knew that meant the end was near but now it comforts me to think that she saw a loved one who came to help her cross over.
I have also seen those passing over become extremely frightened at the end and start asking "not to go there" wherever "there" is. I don't see much of this now in the ER, usually they come tubed and in the middle of compressions or DOA or with a rhythm (and then over to ICU). I don't really miss seeing death bed scenes like LTC.
I find as far as believing goes, it hurts nothing to believe in something above, so why argue about it? You believe in what you believe, I'll do the same and solemnly swear not to appear on anyone's doorstep ready to convert people. I'm not that good at convincing people anyway.
that's pascal's wager and nothing wrong with it at all.
Whoa... I love folks who have read a lot!!
Hey--I spent 18 years in catholic education, and couldn't get out of college (with my first degree) without 2 semesters each of theology and philosophy, plus formal logic..[if p, then q stuff]
I may be way off base, but what I sense insofar as those who feel annoyed on either side is:
Agnostics/atheists....."wish they'd act like educated folks and stop with the fairy tales"..
Theists..."if I don't help these folks they're gonna have a horrible life and then go to hell"
Besides, who likes to contemplate the notion that their entire world view may be a fraud.........so let's speak our truths without preaching either way.
No one answered my question. Why are schizophrenic visions biological but death visions spiritual? Where is the sense in that?
The point of the book "Final Gifts" is that "medicine" and family members ignore or write off as a dementia, a dying patient's last gestures or words. And we should be paying attention - caring for them. Not ignoring them. Whether you believe or not.
My co-workers and I were discussing this issue last week. One of them had a near-death experience several years ago where she was comatose and barely hanging on for several days. She swears that several of her deceased relatives were in the room with her telling her they would be happy to "have her home". She said her mother finally appeared in the room and announced that it was not her time. She thinks she woke up shortly after. I don't know what to make of these kinds of stories, but my friend is not normally a spiritual person. But when she tells the story, she gets tears in her eyes. I believe her, because I have heard dying patients talk to their dead loved ones. And they all seem to reach out, or up.
I find it interesting that few folks in this thread are actually answering the question asked, but instead arguing the religious symbolism involved.
It has been my experience that the raising of the arms, and subsequent flopping of them back down at the sides, exhibited by many who are approaching death has a direct relation to medication, specifically lorazepam. In patients I have seen, remove lorazepam from their schedule and the behavior goes away as well; put the medication back to the schedule and the behavior returns. I have heard many in the field actually describe this as "a typical sign of end-of-life", whereas I firmly believe and have witnessed that this very specific behavior is a side-effect of lorazepam.
Perhaps elsewhere we can argue for or against the notion that those approaching death are seeing loved-ones, or whether these are hallucinations, or whether something is real because we believe it or because we believe it we make it real, but as for the specific behavior that is being queried in this original post, I am convinced it is brought on by medication. Somewhere along the line this specific behavior became associated with an actual sign that someone is nearing death, whereas it is much more likely that because the patient is nearing death they are administered lorazepam to alleviate symptoms of agitation or restlessness, and this behavior manifests then and typically only then. I truly believe this is classic "association fallacy".
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whodatnurse
444 Posts
The higher the arm, the closer to God!