Why is BSN required for CRNA?

I'm working on my RN and plan to go to CRNA school. I've noticed that a few CRNA schools will allow you to have a bachelors in other science areas, as long as you are an RN. But the best school seem to require a BSN. Why is that? Why is an easy, relatively useless, easy to obtain degree required over something like a bachelors in chemistry?

1 hour ago, Cowboyardee said:

I've said many times (and often enough on this forum) that classes in nursing theory, professional practice, and leadership are junk, with no particular standard for research or evidentiary support, and that I would be thrilled if those classes in the BSN curriculum could be substituted by chemistry or O chem, advanced pathophysiology, any clinical, a foreign language, etc.

That said, aside from those (thankfully few) classes, most of the BSN is really just the same nursing classes you get in any nursing degree, the same general math and science prereq courses you include in other BS degrees as well as the same liberal arts electives, and a couple extra community health type classes that you could make a reasonable argument for being useful anyway.

In other words, while I might be more willing than most here to agree with you about some of the BSN curriculum, at least keep it in perspective - the questionable parts of it only make up maybe one full semester's worth of classes. It shouldn't be surprising that an advanced nursing degree requires a BS in nursing as a prereq. The real question is why the BSN curriculum includes some of the classes it does when other courses would make for a stronger education.

1 hour ago, Cowboyardee said:

I've said many times (and often enough on this forum) that classes in nursing theory, professional practice, and leadership are junk, with no particular standard for research or evidentiary support, and that I would be thrilled if those classes in the BSN curriculum could be substituted by chemistry or O chem, advanced pathophysiology, any clinical, a foreign language, etc.

That said, aside from those (thankfully few) classes, most of the BSN is really just the same nursing classes you get in any nursing degree, the same general math and science prereq courses you include in other BS degrees as well as the same liberal arts electives, and a couple extra community health type classes that you could make a reasonable argument for being useful anyway.

In other words, while I might be more willing than most here to agree with you about some of the BSN curriculum, at least keep it in perspective - the questionable parts of it only make up maybe one full semester's worth of classes. It shouldn't be surprising that an advanced nursing degree requires a BS in nursing as a prereq. The real question is why the BSN curriculum includes some of the classes it does when other courses would make for a stronger education.

Thank you for being rationale and answering my question.

1 hour ago, HelicopterMom said:

If you planned accordingly, you would have got a BSN... doesn't sound like you "know exactly how to get there".

Good luck to you. I think when you mature and become an RN and CRNA, you will realize having a BSN is not useless and easy. Especially when you work with other CRNA's who have BSNs. In addition, you will find that advanced hospitals may not want to hire someone without a BSN degree, even if you hold a CRNA. Most elite hospitals want BSN degrees, so they can be magnet hospitals.

The last paragraph is very informative to me. Thank you.

Specializes in School Nursing.
1 hour ago, ArmyRntoMD said:

Because schools like to make money. That’s what the CNO at my hospital told me straight up. It’s a scheme to make money. Bunch of bs classes that they can make you take and charge you for. My RN to BSN was about 50% repeat stuff from diploma program, 25% silly outdated nursing theories, and 25% opinion essays that were only graded for APA formatting and not for content.

Maybe the Army sends you to the wrong schools? My program was very rigorous, with classes that were not full of BS. Opinion essays? Now I know why I was terrified of military medicine when my ex husband was in. Seeing a physician order Ibuprofen for HTN in his jacket made me go through the roof.
Maybe YOU chose the wrong program, or were looking for an easy ride. I know I worked my *** off for both my ASN and my BSN, and I’m proud of both the work and the accomplishment.

Specializes in Critical Care.
4 hours ago, beachynurse said:

Maybe the Army sends you to the wrong schools? My program was very rigorous, with classes that were not full of BS. Opinion essays? Now I know why I was terrified of military medicine when my ex husband was in. Seeing a physician order Ibuprofen for HTN in his jacket made me go through the roof.
Maybe YOU chose the wrong program, or were looking for an easy ride. I know I worked my *** off for both my ASN and my BSN, and I’m proud of both the work and the accomplishment.

It was the best program in the state.. I wasn’t a nurse in the army. I was a grunt. Most all RN to BSN in my state are comparable. All online, 10 months long roughly, and it’s a bunch of opinion garbage.

10 hours ago, zoidberg said:

The school in my city/affiliated with the medical center i work for allowed RNs with ADNs to apply who had hard science BS to apply as organic, biochemistry, etc are helpful for crna students to have. however, once they moved from a masters entry program to a doctoral entry program, they now require a BSN. I think this is a national trend so it may be a part of a new national standard. Just a thought.

Thank you. Makes sense.

4 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

This isn't a problem associated only with the BSN. It is a problem of US education in general. What you are complaining about can be observed across all disciplines. I follow several message boards that have a generally well educated membership. The poor writing you referenced isn't unique to BSN graduates. Name the bachelor's degree-the degree holder is just as likely to be guilty of poor writing, spelling mistakes, and incorrect grammar as any BSN grad. I know medical doctors whose writing is embarrassingly bad. They will even admit to it. They explain that they focus on the "important things," like the hard sciences. As long as their meaning is conveyed, they couldn't care less about too or two, their or there.

I don't know when teachers quit teaching basic English grammar in elementary and secondary schools in the US, but at some point it seems they did. If our students cannot master such simple concepts as when to use there vs. their vs. they're and your and you're, what in the world would make us imagine that they could churn out coherent and cogent term papers and research articles in college?

By the way, while I usually get the basics right, I occasionally spot a typo or other error in my writing when I go back and read my prior posts. There may be one or more in this very post. It can also be observed in the writing of those who can deliver "doctoral level" papers while still in undergrad. Your post above contains several errors. I always find it amusing when people make errors in a post complaining about the writing errors of other members.

The arrogance you display in your posts here will not serve you well in life. The degree one holds (or does not hold) does not necessarily reflect the actual raw intelligence of the individual. Once you have completed your MD program and residency requirements, you won't necessarily be the smartest person in the room at any given time. For all you know, the transport fellow or the housekeeper emptying your trash may actually have a higher IQ than you do. Life circumstances don't always allow the best and brightest to obtain formal education. Respect the contributions of the people around you and don't listen to that inner voice that apparently keeps telling you how superior you are.

Growing up with a poor family was not an easy task and being maltreated by my own family was way painful than eating alone on special occasions and regular nights. I had to do almost everything for everyone. I was fed up of people taking over my life. I was too young to take over an adult responsibility which I did for a short period of time.

People might say I'm a narcissistic person for leaving them behind. My family often called me "selfish" for consistently and persistently declining their advances that they want to buy ... because their neighbors bought this and that. I clearly told them to buy things they want and want to have.

They can't milk me, they don't want to do anything with me. I'm happy though. My life is not impacted when they aren't around. In fact, it's a lot easier. I'm indeed tired of people who do stupid things over and over again expect me to come and clean up their mess. They can continuously having babies. I'm out. I can't see things, and I'm all good. I can focus in my education nowadays.

The man who cleans the trash and floor like I used to do is probably having my life in the past.

Specializes in Critical Care.
4 minutes ago, Megarline said:

Growing up with a poor family was not an easy task and being maltreated by my own family was way painful than eating alone on special occasions and regular nights. I had to do almost everything for everyone. I was fed up of people taking over my life. I was too young to take over an adult responsibility which I did for a short period of time.

People might say I'm a narcissistic person for leaving them behind. My family often called me "selfish" for consistently and persistently declining their advances that they want to buy ... because their neighbors bought this and that. I clearly told them to buy things they want and want to have.

They can't milk me, they don't want to do anything with me. I'm happy though. My life is not impacted when they aren't around. In fact, it's a lot easier. I'm indeed tired of people who do stupid things over and over again expect me to come and clean up their mess. They can continuously having babies. I'm out. I can't see things, and I'm all good. I can focus in my education nowadays.

This is healthy. Sounds just like my situation. While my fathers side are all highly educated PHDs with their sh together, my mothers side out of 5 siblings not a single one even has a bachelors degree. Lots of blight on this side, dope heads, I have a cousin that’s a stripper, it’s really embarrassing. I’ve basically avoided that side of the family like the plague.

Specializes in Critical Care.

I guess we’re spoiled where I am. I don’t know of any jobs outside of travel or the military that require a BSN. I got mine solely for the medschool requirement.

Pay at the hospital I work at is pretty good though, if you snag extra shifts, which I used to do before I was in school full time.

For me (a 4 year nurse)

Nursing base pay 27.50/hr

5.00/ hr night shift diff

3.25/ hr afternoon shift diff

5.50/ hr weekend diff

Time and a half over 40 hrs

10.00 per hr shift diff for emergency pay (every shift picked up)

20.00 per hr shift diff for double emergency pay (semi rare now, used to be very common)

30.00 per hr extra shift diff for triple emergency pay (super rare almost unheard of. Only picked up 3 of these in my career)

Another way they get you, is the BSN isn’t included in your pay, but tacked on. So you don’t get time and a half etc on it.

Still wont complain about pay. You can easily make six figures right out of school with a two year degree. That’s pretty awesome. Some of my coworkers complain about pay, I wish they knew what it was like to pack around 100 lb of rattle in the desert with the chances of getting shot at or blown up, ALL for maybe 38,000 a year. (Tax free though which is nice)

Specializes in Critical Care.

Where I am it is highly competitive which is good. It’s very different from NP, which seems extremely easy to get into.

On 12/18/2019 at 9:55 AM, HelicopterMom said:

If you planned accordingly, you would have got a BSN... doesn't sound like you "know exactly how to get there".

Good luck to you. I think when you mature and become an RN and CRNA, you will realize having a BSN is not useless and easy. Especially when you work with other CRNA's who have BSNs. In addition, you will find that advanced hospitals may not want to hire someone without a BSN degree, even if you hold a CRNA. Most elite hospitals want BSN degrees, so they can be magnet hospitals.

I get that you are offended by OPs post and can understand. However, please do not insinuate that going for the BSN immediately vs obtaining an ADN and bridging is the superior choice. It simply isn't. What is best for one is not what is best for all. For MY situation, it would have been silly to spend thousands of more dollars getting a degree at a university vs a cheap ADN followed by the ability to earn as an RN while finishing a 9 month to 1 year BSN completion program.

And that's not even the only reason I went the ADN route. I had zero choice bc of poor choices I made years earlier. I was kicked out of university due to failing grades. My school would not let me back in without first obtaining an associate's degree. So the notion that all of us who went the ADN route first are somehow less smart by not having "planned accordingly" is in itself extremely offensive. It is more offensive than stating the honest truth that nursing theory and research classes ARE easier than, say a chemistry degree.

Specializes in Critical Care.

Where I live it makes more sense to go diploma and Rn to bsn. It’s .50 an hour less, and you and do Rn to bsn working easily. The coursework is laughably easy, almost all discussion forums and response posts and quizzes.

Specializes in Critical Care.

Just 2 years for some to become a CRNA? That’s a lot of education in a short time. Organic chemistry, biochem, pharmacology, physiology etc. That must make medschool seem like a breeze.

14 minutes ago, ArmyRntoMD said:

Just 2 years for some to become a CRNA? That’s a lot of education in a short time. Organic chemistry, biochem, pharmacology, physiology etc. That must make medschool seem like a breeze.

No. CRNA school alone is 3 yrs since it became a doctorate level. That’s after you’ve obtained a bachelors, completed those specific science courses, obtained CCRN, and worked ICU for a minimum of 1 yr.

1 minute ago, MM1989 said:

No. CRNA school alone is 3 yrs since it became a doctorate level. That’s after you’ve obtained a bachelors, completed those specific science courses, obtained CCRN, and worked ICU for a minimum of 1 yr.

You can definitely argue that’s it’s more difficult and time consuming to become a CRNA than a MD.

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