Why aren't there better incentives for obtaining a BSN degree?

BluegrassRN · Mar 21, 2011

Hospital preference for hiring BSN prepared nurses is all the incentive most people should need, unless they have no desire to get hospital nursing experience.

Well, I already have my 7 years acute care experience in the hospital...what's the incentive for those of us with experience? I get a miniscule tuition reimbursement (something like 30% of tuition, no pay for books or anything), and no additional pay for the BSN I will finish next semester. My hospital wants people to advance to a BSN, but when I pay a grand for tuition and I get a $290 check, I just want to spit. And, I might add, I have to pay taxes on that 290 tuition reimbursement check.

Katie5 · Mar 21, 2011

Hospitals don't want to pay BSNs more, because they are afraid if they started to pay significantly more for a BSN, that ALL nurses would get BSNs on their own, and demand more money, like PT and OT did when they increased their educational levels.
Besides, this if RNs all had BSNs it would unify us, and they would no longer be able to play the very successful, "Divide and "Conquer". Why else would they notwant to pay.
I get livid when I hear nurses state, that BSNs shouldn't get more money because "we all do the same job". Teachers who graduate with Bachelors Degrees, and go on to earn Masters Degrees, get paid more money than the teachers who only have Bachelors Degree,even though they ALL DO THE SAME JOB!
Also, there has never been a protracted, ad nauseum, discussion among PTs, OTs, Pharmacist, etc, on why PTs with with higher degrees provide better care to their patients, and "where is the evidence" that PTs, OTs Pharmacists, will give better care, have better outcomes" if they attain higher degrees"?
If you see what I mean. Nurses argue the point constantly, parroting adminisitrators, who for their own selfish reasons (nothing to do with nurses, patients, etc), do not want nurses to increase their education. Can anyone but me see outside the box? How all of the arguements are pointless, especially since the subject was/has never even been brought up by other health care professionals.
That, in a nutshell, is why nurses who earn BSN, are not paid more. And nurses buy into this drivel , hook, line, and sinker!
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Somewhere in the PACNW

Well done. This just about sums up the reason why nursing is the way it is.Predominantly filled with females which equals competition. You have to literally fight for everything.

Someone gets mad at you for trying innovative ways of doing things because,"We have always done it this way..." Yes, I understand, but it can be improved on. That is life- CHANGE!:)

Psychtrish39, BSN, RN · Mar 21, 2011

Well done. This just about sums up the reason why nursing is the way it is.Predominantly filled with females which equals competition. You have to literally fight for everything.
Someone gets mad at you for trying innovative ways of doing things because,"We have always done it this way..." Yes, I understand, but it can be improved on. That is life- CHANGE!:)

Katie,

You hit the nail right on the head with your statements and I know as a nurse it is alot of our problem besides everything else that is happening to nursing. I will be done with my BSN in October and I am going online because it works well with working full time (which right now I am not ) but I think the BSN in the end will end up being the entry level coming in. I did it to remain competitive or to get into different areas of nursing if I can't work the floor anymore but it has costed me much more money to finish it then it did to obtain my ASN.

I agree with all other posters we as nurses all nurses need to get on the same page with this matter in our profession if we want to be considered professionals because I have worked alongside credentialed people with Master's level education and believe me alot of people don't take nurses seriously education wise and that is just the way it is. However on that same note I am asked in interviews why I am working to obtain it by hiring nurse managers that right there tells me the mindset of management they don't care if nurses are better educated at all and me working in geriatrics and psychiatry they sure aren't. Just my :twocents:

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 21, 2011

MSN entry minimum would result in increased wages to the point where costs would become a burden to the system. The result would be a drastic increases in work visas for foreign nurses.

*** Ya, that's what I said. However I think there is PLENTY of money in the system. I am curious as to why BSN only would NOT increase wages to the point of becoming a burden to the system that you feel MSN would? Is it that BSN would not result in higher wages? Or that BSN would result in higher wages than currently (and if so can somebody please explain to me how this would happen) but less than MSN would?

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 21, 2011

"i could not agree with this."

*** i was playing devil's advocate.

"just because someone has a msn does not make them a better nurse."

*** i respectfuly submit that i thought that was so obvious as to not need saying. my experience as an instructor in my hospital's nurse residency program tells me that direct entry masters rns are worse nurses (at least initialy) than adn & bsn prepared new grads. though i think it might be very helpful in better preparing nurses for the non-nursing things they currently really suck at. managment in particular. being a third career rn i am shocked at the low level of professionalism among nurse managers.

a professor (when i was getting my rn-bsn) said to me that she learned all her basic nursing in her first lpn/rn program.

*** exactly the same for me and many other nurses i have talked to. i didn't learn a thing about nursing in my rn to bsn program that i haden't already learned on the job or through ceus.

i was a diploma grad first, then did a rn-bsn, then msn. hospitals in the ne are wanting to hire more bsns so they can get (they pay for it) magnet status,

*** nothing about achieving magnet status involves hiring bsn only rns. having worked at three different hospitals in two states during the time they did their "journy to magnet" and having worked at several other magnet hospitals, and having spoken to many fellow icu, er, transport & rapid responce nurses i have determined that many of the magnet hospitals are not good places for rns to work. the one hospital that was a wonderful place to work before magnet remained so after magnet. the others that were not good places to work remained so after magnet. i think this is especialy true for the early adopters. all things being equal i would choose a non magnet hospital to work at. they are aquiring a deserved reputation as not being nice places to be a nurse, at least among the critical care types i speak with.

which means more patients will want to spend their money there.

*** i have serious doubts about this and would like to see the data that backs that up if there is any. even if it is true pretty soon nearly all large hospital will have magnet and it will become meaningless imo.

it has little to do with better patient outcomes or less people dying. it's all about money.

*** yes, you are 100% correct.

and it is a way to keep nursing more exclusive, so lower economic, disadvantaged people cannot afford a bsn or for sure, a msn. just another way to limit people. isn't it crystal clear???? :mad:

*** it is clear to me that the "bsn only" movement is an attempt to keep people like men (most of whome come to nursing as second or third career) and other non-traditional types out of the field.

OldNurseEducator · Mar 21, 2011

"i could not agree with this."
*** i was playing devil's advocate.
"just because someone has a msn does not make them a better nurse."
*** i respectfuly submit that i thought that was so obvious as to not need saying. my experience as an instructor in my hospital's nurse residency program tells me that direct entry masters rns are worse nurses (at least initialy) than adn & bsn prepared new grads. though i think it might be very helpful in better preparing nurses for the non-nursing things they currently really suck at. managment in particular. being a third career rn i am shocked at the low level of professionalism among nurse managers.
a professor (when i was getting my rn-bsn) said to me that she learned all her basic nursing in her first lpn/rn program.
*** exactly the same for me and many other nurses i have talked to. i didn't learn a thing about nursing in my rn to bsn program that i haden't already learned on the job or through ceus.
i was a diploma grad first, then did a rn-bsn, then msn. hospitals in the ne are wanting to hire more bsns so they can get (they pay for it) magnet status,
*** nothing about achieving magnet status involves hiring bsn only rns. having worked at three different hospitals in two states during the time they did their "journy to magnet" and having worked at several other magnet hospitals, and having spoken to many fellow icu, er, transport & rapid responce nurses i have determined that many of the magnet hospitals are not good places for rns to work. the one hospital that was a wonderful place to work before magnet remained so after magnet. the others that were not good places to work remained so after magnet. i think this is especialy true for the early adopters. all things being equal i would choose a non magnet hospital to work at. they are aquiring a deserved reputation as not being nice places to be a nurse, at least among the critical care types i speak with.
which means more patients will want to spend their money there.
*** i have serious doubts about this and would like to see the data that backs that up if there is any. even if it is true pretty soon nearly all large hospital will have magnet and it will become meaningless imo.
it has little to do with better patient outcomes or less people dying. it's all about money.
*** yes, you are 100% correct.
and it is a way to keep nursing more exclusive, so lower economic, disadvantaged people cannot afford a bsn or for sure, a msn. just another way to limit people. isn't it crystal clear????
*** it is clear to me that the "bsn only" movement is an attempt to keep people like men (most of whome come to nursing as second or third career) and other non-traditional types out of the field.

most patients, almost all, go to the hospital which is either closest to their home, or where their doctor practices. i think the hospital boards think magnet status will gain them more customers...imho. patients don't really care. all they want is a good outcome and respect and care as a person. you're comments are spot on. in ne ohio, magnet hospitals are hiring mostly (if not all) bsn grads. i also agree that if all major hospitals would have magnet status, it would dilute the distinction. thanks for your post. :) :nurse:

lindarn · Mar 21, 2011

a bsn opens more jobs and advancement to you and maybe a buck or two more pay. other than that, the US health care system sees no need to give incentives for 2 more years of general college education.

Then why does the US Healthcare system see the need to give incentives for 2 more years of school for OTs, PTs, Pharmacists, etc? Yes, they get paid more than we do, they control their profession, and get far more respect than nurses do.

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 21, 2011

Canada, Australia, and the UK all require 4 year degrees now. It was inevitable that the US would follow suit. The incentive is more opportunities, as well as opportunities for advancement. Oh...and travel nursing within, and outside of the US.

labelle777 · Mar 22, 2011

I think that although some nurses believe that there is not much more knowledge to gain in a BSN program than they can from nursing experience, obtaining a BSN degree is an investment of additional time, money, and other resources. As a result, a BSN degree should yield a higher return even if the nurse is doing the same job as they were previously.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 22, 2011

Then why does the US Healthcare system see the need to give incentives for 2 more years of school for OTs, PTs, Pharmacists, etc? Yes, they get paid more than we do, they control their profession,

*** PT & OT had the good sense to be fee for service. Nurses missed out on that, to our detriment. Also while pharmacists do make more than I do where I work, PT & OT do not. OT in particular makes about 60% of what I do.

and get far more respect than nurses do.

*** You have said that several times and I certainly do not doubt that is your experience and observation, but it is NOT mine. My experience is quite the opposite, especially from patients and families.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 22, 2011

Canada, Australia, and the UK all require 4 year degrees now. It was inevitable that the US would follow suit. The incentive is more opportunities, as well as opportunities for advancement. Oh...and travel nursing within, and outside of the US.

*** Travel nursing within the USA in particular could care less about BSN. I have done several travel contracts with a couple different companies as well as a lot of per diem and they never even ask what my degree is.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 22, 2011

i think that although some nurses believe that there is not much more knowledge to gain in a bsn program than they can from nursing experience,.

*** they believe that because it's true. i am in a position to know. i am an experienced rn who went to a state university to do rn to bsn. it was easy and i learned nothing about nursing. first of all there was hardly any nursing content in the program. what there was i already knew as a result of my experience and years worth of ceus.

obtaining a bsn degree is an investment of additional time, money, and other resources. as a result, a bsn degree should yield a higher return even if the nurse is doing the same job as they were previously.

*** i agree but it does not. i know that in some places bsn nurses get paid a little more. not here. in 2010 the sicu where i worked in a large tertiary care, teaching hospital with magnet (whoop-ti-do) hired a new nurse manager. he was an associates degree nurse.