Why aren't there better incentives for obtaining a BSN degree?

SC_RNDude · Mar 22, 2011

Then why does the US Healthcare system see the need to give incentives for 2 more years of school for OTs, PTs, Pharmacists, etc? Yes, they get paid more than we do, they control their profession, and get far more respect than nurses do.
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Somewhere in the PACNW

It's not that that facilities are more because they have more education. It's because those fields require the additional education to get certified, and thus there are fewer people to fill those positions.

Any employer is going to pay what they need to in order to get quality employees without paying more then they need to.

cabanaboy · Mar 22, 2011

Hospitals don't want to pay BSNs more, because they are afraid if they started to pay significantly more for a BSN, that ALL nurses would get BSNs on their own, and demand more money, like PT and OT did when they increased their educational levels.
Besides, this if RNs all had BSNs it would unify us, and they would no longer be able to play the very successful, "Divide and "Conquer". Why else would they notwant to pay.
I get livid when I hear nurses state, that BSNs shouldn't get more money because "we all do the same job". Teachers who graduate with Bachelors Degrees, and go on to earn Masters Degrees, get paid more money than the teachers who only have Bachelors Degree,even though they ALL DO THE SAME JOB!
Also, there has never been a protracted, ad nauseum, discussion among PTs, OTs, Pharmacist, etc, on why PTs with with higher degrees provide better care to their patients, and "where is the evidence" that PTs, OTs Pharmacists, will give better care, have better outcomes" if they attain higher degrees"?
If you see what I mean. Nurses argue the point constantly, parroting adminisitrators, who for their own selfish reasons (nothing to do with nurses, patients, etc), do not want nurses to increase their education. Can anyone but me see outside the box? How all of the arguements are pointless, especially since the subject was/has never even been brought up by other health care professionals.
That, in a nutshell, is why nurses who earn BSN, are not paid more. And nurses buy into this drivel , hook, line, and sinker!
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Somewhere in the PACNW

Suppose ALL nurses had BSN's. Wages still wouldn't go up because there would still be the same number of RN's. The reason PT's/OT makes more (if that is true) is because there are fewer of them in relation to the number needed. Now, that may be due to the increased educational level required, but just to think that by raising everyone's educational level will make wages rise isn't necessarily true.

Re: teachers making more for more education - you picked one of the few professions that is the exception. And, many would argue that system is one of the problems with education in the U.S. The school district in which one of my family members works some teachers are making 2 or 3 times what new teachers make simply because they have more post-grad credits, not even necessarily have completed a masters. Does that really make them worth two or three times as much as a less-educated teacher?

Meanwhile, school districts are having budget problmes, cutting programs, laying off teachers and other employees, etc. So, simply paying people more because they have a higher education but still do the same job may not be the way to go, in my opinion.

labelle777 · Mar 22, 2011

It's not that that facilities are more because they have more education. It's because those fields require the additional education to get certified, and thus there are fewer people to fill those positions.
Any employer is going to pay what they need to in order to get quality employees without paying more then they need to.

I bet that an OT with a masters would be paid significantly more than an OT with a bachelors and that a pharmacist with a doctoral degree would be paid more than a Pharmacist with a PharmD, even if the two are doing the same job and all are licensed.

cabanaboy · Mar 22, 2011

I'm a BSN nurse, and I was just wondering why is it that there are so few incentives for obtaining a BSN degree as opposed to an ADN degree? I know that an RN is an RN, but I feel there should be greater incentives for obtaining a BSN degree. BSN nurses only get paid generally an extra 50 cents to $1 an hour than ADN nurses from what I've seen so far, but it doesn't make sense to me. On top of that, MSN prepared nurses don't seem to make much more than BSN nurses. At various hospitals I saw that their MSN differential is $1300 a year. I 've also seen that certification differentials at these same hospitals are around $1200 (not much different than a BSN or MSN differential).
Why is this the case? I've come across nurses with ADN's who would like to get there BSN but don't because there are no real incentives, given the additional schooling and extra tuition involved. From ADN to BSN to MSN to Doctorate there should be much larger wages as one progresses from one degree to the next. I think there should be at least a $10,000 difference in yearly salary. In many ways, money talks, and it seems that what facilities that hire nurses are saying to us is that they only wan't ADN nurses.

A $10,000 difference? It sounds great to me, but realisticly what is that based on? Is a MSN with the same amount of experience working on the same unit as a BSN or ADN really that much different? Are they that much more valuable to the employer? Not likley, so why should they pay more?

Another poster complained that their employer only reimbursed a "miniscule" 30% of tuition. That sounds pretty generous to me. True, some reimburse more, but many more don't reimburse anything, nor should they be expected to.

I'm not sure why many people feel so entitled to certain things. The purpose of a hospital or any business for that matter is not to provide you with a job, tuition reimbursement, insurance, etc. They are there to accomplish a mission, usually to make money. To accomplish this mission, they need great employees and to get great employees they need to offer good wages, insurance, vacation, tuition, etc. Some organizations are much better at that then others, and almost every employer I have worked for I have seen where they certainly could improve in attracting and keeping employees. However, once you accept that they aren't there to simply pay for your schooling or give you higher wages just because you think they should, your eyes will open up to how to make better opportunities for yourself, and the happier and more successful you will be!

SC_RNDude · Mar 22, 2011

I bet that an OT with a masters would be paid significantly more than an OT with a bachelors and that a pharmacist with a doctoral degree would be paid more than a Pharmacist with a PharmD, even if the two are doing the same job and all are licensed.

I believe you need a master's to be an OT, so I would bet that to.

The pharmicist I don't know? Do you really know? I would be more inclined to bet that they would make a significant more $$$ only if they also had more responsibility.

labelle777 · Mar 22, 2011

A $10,000 difference? It sounds great to me, but realisticly what is that based on?

Lets say that two nurses have equivalent working clinical experience. The better wages for the BSN nurse than the ADN nurse is based on double the academic preparation, its based on the studies that have shown that a more educated nurse produces better outcomes for their patients.

OldNurseEducator · Mar 22, 2011

Lets say that two nurses have equivalent working clinical experience. The better wages for the BSN nurse than the ADN nurse is based on double the academic preparation, its based on the studies that have shown that a more educated nurse produces better outcomes for their patients.

Please enlighten us with citations for those studies...please. :clown:

**NickiLaughs, ADN, BSN, RN** · Mar 22, 2011

I think it depends on where you work. My current job pays 5500 a year for tuition for a bachelors for RN to BSN, this pretty much covers all tuition and fees for going full time, there's also an additional 5000 dollar scholarship you can apply for, but you have to commit two years to the facility after you finish. So it's basically free if you get it there, and they give you a 6% raise when you finish. They also cover the same amount if you go for your Masters. I know, I'm very lucky at my facility.

labelle777 · Mar 22, 2011

please enlighten us with citations for those studies...please.

the following is from the aacn

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/media/factsheets/impactednp.htm

recognizing differences among nursing program graduates

there is a growing body of evidence that shows that bsn graduates bring unique skills to their work as nursing clinicians and play an important role in the delivery of safe patient care.

*in an article published in health services research in august 2008 that examined the effect of nursing practice environments on outcomes of hospitalized cancer patients undergoing surgery, dr. christopher friese and colleagues found that nursing education level was significantly associated with patient outcomes. nurses prepared at the baccalaureate-level were linked with lower mortality and failure-to-rescue rates. the authors conclude that “moving to a nurse workforce in which a higher proportion of staff nurses have at least a baccalaureate-level education would result in substantially fewer adverse outcomes for patients.”

*in a study released in the may/june 2008 issue of the journal of nursing administration, dr. linda aiken and her colleagues confirmed the findings from their landmark 2003 study (see below) which show a strong link between rn education level and patient outcomes. titled “effects of hospital care environment on patient mortality and nurse outcomes,” these leading nurse researchers found that every 10% increase in the proportion of bsn nurses on the hospital staff was associated with a 4% decrease in the risk of death.

*in the january 2007 issue of the journal of advanced nursing, a new study is titled “impact of hospital nursing care on 30-day mortality for acute medical patients” found that baccalaureate-prepared nurses have a positive impact on lowering mortality rates. led by dr. ann e. tourangeau, a research team from the university of toronto and the institute for clinical evaluative sciences in ontario, canada, studied 46,993 patients admitted to the hospital with heart attacks, strokes, pneumonia and blood poisoning. the authors found that: "hospitals with higher proportions of baccalaureate-prepared nurses tended to have lower 30-day mortality rates. our findings indicated that a 10% increase in the proportion of baccalaureate prepared nurses was associated with 9 fewer deaths for every 1,000 discharged patients."

*in a study published in the march/april 2005 issue of nursing research, dr. carole estabrooks and her colleagues at the university of alberta found that baccalaureate prepared nurses have a positive impact on mortality rates following an examination of more than 18,000 patient outcomes at 49 canadian hospitals. this study, titled the impact of hospital nursing characteristics on 30-day mortality, confirms the findings from dr. linda aiken's landmark study in september 2003.

*in a study published in the september 24, 2003 issue of the journal of the american medical association (jama), dr. linda aiken and her colleagues at the university of pennsylvania identified a clear link between higher levels of nursing education and better patient outcomes. this extensive study found that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with higher proportions of nurses educated at the baccalaureate or higher degree level. in hospitals, a 10 percent increase in the proportion of nurses holding bsn degrees decreased the risk of patient death and failure to rescue by 5 percent. the study authors further recommend that public financing of nursing education should aim at shaping a workforce best prepared to meet the needs of the population. they also call for renewed support and incentives from nurse employers to encourage registered nurses to pursue education at the baccalaureate and higher degree levels.

*evidence shows that nursing education level is a factor in patient safety and quality of care. as cited in the report when care becomes a burden released by the milbank memorial fund in 2001, two separate studies conducted in 1996 - one by the state of new york and one by the state of texas - clearly show that significantly higher levels of medication errors and procedural violations are committed by nurses prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels as compared with the baccalaureate level. these findings are consistent with findings published in the july/august 2002 issue of nurse educator magazine that references studies conducted in arizona, colorado, louisiana, ohio and tennessee that also found that nurses prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels make the majority of practice-related violations.

*chief nurse officers (cno) in university hospitals prefer to hire nurses who have baccalaureate degrees, and nurse administrators recognize distinct differences in competencies based on education. in a 2001 survey published in the journal of nursing administration, 72% of these directors identified differences in practice between bsn-prepared nurses and those who have an associate degree or hospital diploma, citing stronger critical thinking and leadership skills.

*studies have also found that nurses prepared at the baccalaureate level have stronger communication and problem solving skills (johnson, 1988) and a higher proficiency in their ability to make nursing diagnoses and evaluate nursing interventions (giger & davidhizar, 1990).

*research shows that rns prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels develop stronger professional-level skills after completing a bsn program. in a study of rn-to-bsn graduates from 1995 to 1998 (phillips, et al., 2002), these students demonstrated higher competency in nursing practice, communication, leadership, professional integration, and research/evaluation.

OldNurseEducator · Mar 22, 2011

the following is from the aacn
http://www.aacn.nche.edu/media/factsheets/impactednp.htm
recognizing differences among nursing program graduates
there is a growing body of evidence that shows that bsn graduates bring unique skills to their work as nursing clinicians and play an important role in the delivery of safe patient care.
in an article published in health services research in august 2008 that examined the effect of nursing practice environments on outcomes of hospitalized cancer patients undergoing surgery, dr. christopher friese and colleagues found that nursing education level was significantly associated with patient outcomes. nurses prepared at the baccalaureate-level were linked with lower mortality and failure-to-rescue rates. the authors conclude that "moving to a nurse workforce in which a higher proportion of staff nurses have at least a baccalaureate-level education would result in substantially fewer adverse outcomes for patients."
in a study released in the may/june 2008 issue of the journal of nursing administration, dr. linda aiken and her colleagues confirmed the findings from their landmark 2003 study (see below) which show a strong link between rn education level and patient outcomes. titled "effects of hospital care environment on patient mortality and nurse outcomes," these leading nurse researchers found that every 10% increase in the proportion of bsn nurses on the hospital staff was associated with a 4% decrease in the risk of death.

in the january 2007 issue of the journal of advanced nursing, a new study is titled "impact of hospital nursing care on 30-day mortality for acute medical patients" found that baccalaureate-prepared nurses have a positive impact on lowering mortality rates. led by dr. ann e. tourangeau, a research team from the university of toronto and the institute for clinical evaluative sciences in ontario, canada, studied 46,993 patients admitted to the hospital with heart attacks, strokes, pneumonia and blood poisoning. the authors found that: "hospitals with higher proportions of baccalaureate-prepared nurses tended to have lower 30-day mortality rates. our findings indicated that a 10% increase in the proportion of baccalaureate prepared nurses was associated with 9 fewer deaths for every 1,000 discharged patients."

in a study published in the march/april 2005 issue of nursing research, dr. carole estabrooks and her colleagues at the university of alberta found that baccalaureate prepared nurses have a positive impact on mortality rates following an examination of more than 18,000 patient outcomes at 49 canadian hospitals. this study, titled the impact of hospital nursing characteristics on 30-day mortality, confirms the findings from dr. linda aiken's landmark study in september 2003.

in a study published in the september 24, 2003 issue of the journal of the american medical association (jama), dr. linda aiken and her colleagues at the university of pennsylvania identified a clear link between higher levels of nursing education and better patient outcomes. this extensive study found that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with higher proportions of nurses educated at the baccalaureate or higher degree level. in hospitals, a 10 percent increase in the proportion of nurses holding bsn degrees decreased the risk of patient death and failure to rescue by 5 percent. the study authors further recommend that public financing of nursing education should aim at shaping a workforce best prepared to meet the needs of the population. they also call for renewed support and incentives from nurse employers to encourage registered nurses to pursue education at the baccalaureate and higher degree levels.
evidence shows that nursing education level is a factor in patient safety and quality of care. as cited in the report when care becomes a burden released by the milbank memorial fund in 2001, two separate studies conducted in 1996 - one by the state of new york and one by the state of texas - clearly show that significantly higher levels of medication errors and procedural violations are committed by nurses prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels as compared with the baccalaureate level. these findings are consistent with findings published in the july/august 2002 issue of nurse educator magazine that references studies conducted in arizona, colorado, louisiana, ohio and tennessee that also found that nurses prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels make the majority of practice-related violations.

chief nurse officers (cno) in university hospitals prefer to hire nurses who have baccalaureate degrees, and nurse administrators recognize distinct differences in competencies based on education. in a 2001 survey published in the journal of nursing administration, 72% of these directors identified differences in practice between bsn-prepared nurses and those who have an associate degree or hospital diploma, citing stronger critical thinking and leadership skills.

studies have also found that nurses prepared at the baccalaureate level have stronger communication and problem solving skills (johnson, 1988) and a higher proficiency in their ability to make nursing diagnoses and evaluate nursing interventions (giger & davidhizar, 1990).

research shows that rns prepared at the associate degree and diploma levels develop stronger professional-level skills after completing a bsn program. in a study of rn-to-bsn graduates from 1995 to 1998 (phillips, et al., 2002), these students demonstrated higher competency in nursing practice, communication, leadership, professional integration, and research/evaluation.

this may be a good argument for different nclex exams for different levels of rn's. just sayin'...we all take the same nclex-rn at the present time. maybe the nclex-rn isn't measuring what it should be measuring? :clown: :confused: :nurse:

labelle777 · Mar 22, 2011

I see what you're saying, but at the same time, the NCLEX is designed to measure minimum competency for entry level RN practice. At the end of the day an RN is an RN and we all do great work, but you can't overlook the importance of more academic preparation.

Guest717236 · Mar 22, 2011

OldNurseEducator,

The studies above are all by nurses with advanced degrees who teach in College Nursing programs.

I am shocked at the outcome that BSNs provide better outcomes...concluded by nurse educators.

I would like to see an independent study done by non nursing researchers............and compare the findings.........