Who do you work for the patient or the facility?

Nurses General Nursing

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So last night I did something that could get me fired. Oh well I was looking for a job when I found this one :sneaky:.

To give a bit of background, I work swing (3-11) shift in a small SNF (45 beds) We are usually occupied at 85 to 90%. There has been recent push by our Corporate Office to get to 100% occupancy and to accept more residents with higher medical and psychiatric acuity. Understand we are not a locked facility and are 100% restraint free.

So I came on duty yesterday and told we were getting an admit from a hospital that regularly dumps fragile patients on SNFs. As I read the packet I became concerned as the patient was 3 days post op and just out of ICU for respiratory depression. On continuous bi-pap. Were going to wean off the machine and do PT/OT for the surgery.

So the hospital calls to give me report at 10:30 pm. Really :banghead: Not even fully weaned of bi-pap satting in the high 80's when machine is off. I asked if patient would be coming with own Bi-pap as we do not have that equipment and would not be able to get it until the next day. Nurse said "well you can just leave it off and see how patient does. I said I would have to speak to my manager and the admitting physician so hung up and paged both. Admin called first an of course said take the patient. The physician called next and said "What happens if the patient codes after arrival? He further stated that he did not feel comfortable accepting the patient without proper equipment and said tell them to send patient in am to give us time to be properly set up. I called hospital and relayed info then texted my manger also tried to call her with same info but she did not pick up or return my call.

I am on my way to work today and am sure management will want to talk to me about this. From the first day I became a nurse I have always been a strong patient advocate. In reality I feel a work for the patients and not for the facility where I hang my hat. So if this is the end of this employment I will walk out with my head held high.

Anyway just had to vent this out!

Thanks for listening

Hppy

isn't it kind of a crazy answer to say Leave the bipap off tonight and see how he does?! What if he doesn't do well? you don't have the equipment and if he goes into respiratory failure it's on your head, not the hospitals! you did the right thing completely. you protected the patient and the snf! I would think it would be total negligence to agree to take a patient you knew in advance you could not take proper care of. good luck coming out looking good in that lawsuit if the patient suffered and died! good for you for doing the right thing!

Specializes in General Internal Medicine, ICU.

You did nothing wrong. A patient cannot be admitted without an admitting physician, which applies to your situation. The doctor refused to admit the patient, and that's not on you.

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

Thanks for all your kind words. I did get called into the principal's office (so to speak) but it was to be told that the patient never came because the sending facility's pulmonologist felt it was too risky to send the patient without Bi-pap. I stood there for a moment in open mouth astonishment then walked out because I heard the Physician in question voice in the hallway. He is our medical director and he and I go way back over 10 years (in a professional capacity) I say this because I know he trusts my judgement. My DON followed me out and started on the whole sending hospital held the patient and he looked up and said "Is this the patient from last night that I refused? " I could have hugged and kissed him right there but that would not have been very professional. Anyway we got the Bi- pap and patient came in at 11:00pm and was all tucked in when I left after 2 hours of Over-time.

Hppygr8ful

Specializes in Psych, LTC/SNF, Rehab, Corrections.

I side with (you) and the provider. This is one of those situations where I'd be happy to 'just follow doc orders'.

Anyway, at least your doc spoke up.

This situation has happened at the one the facilities where I work, except we actually admitted these people. Twice. This particular hospital is always thrusting their half-dead pt's on us.

I've never worked in a hospital (in the nursing side) so I don't know what kind of pressure the nurses are under to discharge people. I try to not judge.

Still, with one pt? When my coworker recvd nurse2nurse report, the exasperated nurse on the other end actually got on the phone with her like, "We've just gotta get her outta here. Sorry!" LOL I'm paraphrasing but it was very like that.

I forget much of the admitting dx but she had MRSA, VRE, sacral wounds 2 or 3, DM, HTN, continuous 02 c sheduled/prn neb txt, dementia/alz (of course, we could barely keep the 02 on her.), etc... Just all messed up. My coworker had a problem with admitting her for reasons that I cannot recall but I do recall her RR being > 22 and her 02sat,

You did the right thing. Unfortunately, some facilities seem to want to take anyone for the money. I do not see my patients as money bags, I see them as human beings who deserve respect. I have worked at a SNF as well and we were getting a hospice patient from home who required a PCA pump. We had none in the building and the administrator lied and said it was already there to get the patient to come in (patient wanted to stay home until PCA pump was available). When the patient and family arrived they were livid, as I would be too. It is very unfortunate that some facilities view these patients as paychecks and do not consider their feelings. That is where ethics comes into play, and sadly as nurses we shouldn't have to vouch for people who do not have ethical standards. Some people shouldn't be running facilities.

Specializes in SICU, trauma, neuro.

I used to work SNF and the RNs functioned as admissions coordinators on the weekends. We reviewed the hospital records and rejected the inappropriate admissions all the time.

This wasn't even almost a difficult decision. They already knew that he needed the BiPAP on -- he desatted without it!! How would that RN feel about getting plunked on top of Mt Everest with no supplemental O2? Well we know she's going to get hypoxic because we know atmospheric O2 at that altitude is what, 7%?? Well let's just try it and see how it works. Are you freaking kidding me.

I also have a feeling that if you'd accepted the pt knowing you didn't have the necessary O2 delivery equipment, both you and the facility would be in hot H2O. You cost them the full bed, you saved them from potentially a huge lawsuit. You saved yourself from professional consequences and personal guilt.

Most importantly, you saved that pt from hypoxia. Good job. :nurse:

Specializes in LTC, Rehab.

Based on the hospital nurse's 'let's leave it off and see how he does' impeccable logic, I should just withhold insulin from my resident who sometimes has a blood glucose of 400, 500, or yes, even 600, and just 'see how she does'.

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