I am sure that I am opening a pandoras box here but I will probably not be visiting this website much longer.
I have been a daily reader for several years and I have laughed, cried and been educated by what I have read on this forum.
It seems that for a several months now, the majority of opinions on issues and problems in nursing are being addressed by:
1. Nursing students...
2. Pre-nursing students...
3. I want to be a pre-nursing student...
4. I thought about becoming a nurse once...
5. My mother, sister, cousin, neighbor is a nurse...
6. I talked to a nurse in the hospital once...
7. I watch Mercy on TV...
8. I read a book about a nurse...
9. I met a nurse in the grocery store line
10. I once saw a photo of Florence Nightingale...
Well, you get the picture.
I have absolutely nothing against students (obviously we all started out that way) and they at least have a handle on some of this, but until you have worked in the TRENCHES, you CANNOT even IMAGINE what nursing is like as a profession!!!! The exteme highs and the extreme lows! The Humor and the Horror!
I do not have an issue with non nurses reading all of the posts however, I draw the line at expressing opinions as if you had a clue.
So to all of the layperson nurse " wanna bees" PLEASE do not post your advice and snide comments, especially in the vent threads. I have read "Oh, wow, I sure hope I don't think or act like that when I become a nurse".... or "oh wow, that nurse actually laughed at/told off /or disliked her patient-how awful !" ....so many times I now just skip these responses.
The vent threads are for experienced professionals who have "Been there and done that" to relate and to commiserate!!!
There is a forum for students, maybe there should be a forum for non medical/nursing persons.
After all, the official website states:
"A Nursing Community for Nurses" and 400,008 nurses talking about nursing...
In closing, Where oh where are all of you seasoned nurses? Are we just outnumbered? or is it because we are too exhausted from actually Working as a Nurse to post???????
My two cents, and yes, I have almost 20 years of experience. And Yes, I guess this is a VENT.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Well, let's see...I'm here because I'm going into administration and health data analysis/management. Instead of just drawing on my own experiences and what I learn in my classes, which will necessarily be delivered from one primary perspective, I thought it would be useful to read about what professionals in the field deal with on a regular basis. I thought it would help me be better at my eventual job and would help the nurses, physicians, techs, and other hands-on patient care providers with whom I'll eventually work if I learned about the daily concerns and problems that nurses all over the country encounter. I post in response to threads I think I can meaningfully contribute to, not threads about which I clearly know nothing. I don't ask anyone to do my homework (I'm quite capable of doing it myself, and if I weren't, I'd be in real trouble later!); in fact, thus far I've never initiated a new thread.
One of the most consistent sentiments I've heard during my (admittedly brief) time on allnurses is the wish that managers and "paper pushers" knew what it was like to work in the trenches. Thanks to a physical disability, I'll never have the chance to work as a hand-on care provider, but I thought this was a good way for me to at least begin to remedy that weakness in my background. I certainly understand the frustration with those who can't be bothered to search for an answer before posting a question or 90,000 postings of the same questions. However, I'm not sure that disparaging or excluding "non-nurses," even those who try to meaningfully and respectfully participate, is a good or fair response.
I do understand that this is a vent thread and I certainly agree that having those with no experience respond disrespectfully or snottily to those with experience to spare is frustrating and rude. But just as in any other field, it does take diversity to ensure a well-rounded perspective. Moreover, the ideas in vent threads sometimes take on a life of their own. I really hope the idea of an exclusive "experienced nurses only" forum doesn't take root; it would deprive those of us who are nursing students or professionals in allied health fields of an important chance to learn about the big issues and daily trials and tribulations with which practicing hands-on patient care professionals must grapple.
And for the record, I've never seen a picture of Florence Nightingale or watched Gray's Anatomy or Mercy.
I don't think anyone is suggesting non-nurses should be prevented from reading the threads, though. Many times I've noticed on all nurses that someone will post a vent, which typically is talking about the most egregious examples of a behavior, and all the people who do that thing in a responsible manner become defensive and are offended when most of the time the vent-ers had specific, extreme examples in mind.
I've seen it happen in the "text messaging vents", when the person is doing necessary texting of doctors or other departments as part of their job. We are not talking about you. The "you are part of the problem with healthcare if" thread, somehow had every nurse educator or perfectly wonderful nurse manager in a tizzy because it mentioned people who wore "business casual" to work. I don't think the author of that thread was talking about them. The really epic "gum chewing" thread was filled with people saying, "I tuck a small piece of peppermint gum in my cheek to stop me from barfing around certain smells". We are not talking about you.
I think a person who is a non-nurse and contributes, and they are not obnoxious and judgemental, I don't have a problem with it, and/or most of the time I can't tell. Unfortunately, the people who we are talking about, have no interest in being an active, collegial member of allnurses, and, most of the time they have no interest in hanging around.
i'm someone who's posted a lot recently who probably shouldn't. you are all very correct, i simply can not begin to have a valuable opinion on this profession yet, plus i talk a lot, and for that i apologize. i will be shutting my mouth. i'm not a "poster". i don't have a facebook, nor a presence online. but very quickly i realized allnurses is the most valuable professional source of information i've ever experienced, a community of caring people, of strangers across the globe all connected in one major way - a passion for their profession, and i got excited to be a part. having a place like this for strangers to come together and be themselves is so very rare in this world of constant communication and scrutinity, and it's been created by each of you, post by post. please don't go away.
i've been a member for only a few weeks, but very quickly have come to enjoy many of you...llg, dogoodthengo, madwife2002, daytonite... i search out your posts as informative, professional, entertaining and above all else, practical. it was you who i feverishly read upon discovering allnurses. it was you who helped me know for certain i made the right decision to become a nurse. you've taught me so much already, my mentors from afar, and given me a jump-start on school in a unique way that i would not have had otherwise. and you did all this and don't even know it, or me. words can not express what you've done for me in such a short time. i'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same.
i feel awful to reference daytonite since i'm so new to the site and don't feel i have the right to recall her as you all do, but i just have to get this off my chest. i can't help being awed by her posts...my what a gal, huh! i've only read a fraction of her advice, but have already taken to deep heart much of her lessons. reading her guestbook is a testament to her legacy - she left her mark on people she never even met in ways she probably never even knew. thank goodness she, like you all, are able to pass on your experience to us newbies. please know there are some of us who will go on to honor it, use it wisely and pass it further into the profession.
i can imagine your offense and frustration. i "gafaw" to myself when i see the point blank homework requests, the dui posts, the obvious attempts to find ways to speed through to the fastest paycheck. people can be real idiots. but some of us students truly need you, and genuinely are learning from you...even from your discussions amongst yourselves.
you make this site. you make this place a valuable resource to many people who need your experienced advice, guidance, humor, stories, friendship.
please don't go away.
(sorry, i just wrote a lot again, but with all these experienced nurses on this post, i just had to extend my appreciation. thank you all. shutting up now in..3,2,1.)
I don't think anyone is suggesting non-nurses should be prevented from reading the threads, though. Many times I've noticed on all nurses that someone will post a vent, which typically is talking about the most egregious examples of a behavior, and all the people who do that thing in a responsible manner become defensive and are offended when most of the time the vent-ers had specific, extreme examples in mind.
I've seen it happen in the "text messaging vents", when the person is doing necessary texting of doctors or other departments as part of their job. We are not talking about you. The "you are part of the problem with healthcare if" thread, somehow had every nurse educator or perfectly wonderful nurse manager in a tizzy because it mentioned people who wore "business casual" to work. I don't think the author of that thread was talking about them. The really epic "gum chewing" thread was filled with people saying, "I tuck a small piece of peppermint gum in my cheek to stop me from barfing around certain smells". We are not talking about you.
I think a person who is a non-nurse and contributes, and they are not obnoxious and judgemental, I don't have a problem with it, and/or most of the time I can't tell. Unfortunately, the people who we are talking about, have no interest in being an active, collegial member of allnurses, and, most of the time they have no interest in hanging around.
"I do not have an issue with non nurses reading all of the posts however, I draw the line at expressing opinions as if you had a clue.
So to all of the layperson nurse " wanna bees" PLEASE do not post your advice and snide comments, especially in the vent threads. I have read "Oh, wow, I sure hope I don't think or act like that when I become a nurse".... or "oh wow, that nurse actually laughed at/told off /or disliked her patient-how awful !" ....so many times I now just skip these responses.
The vent threads are for experienced professionals who have "Been there and done that" to relate and to commiserate!!!
There is a forum for students, maybe there should be a forum for non medical/nursing persons.
After all, the official website states:
"A Nursing Community for Nurses" and 400,008 nurses talking about nursing..."
@nursel56: I've thought quite a bit about what you said and agonized over my response for a long time. I can see your point, but I guess it's hard not to be defensive when comments like "I don't see why non-nurses...would even want to be on this site" or the OP's remarks (part of which I reposted above) are made. If the forum is intended to be for and populated by nurses and only nurses, that's fine; the site originator and the allnurses leaders have a perfect right to create that type of site, clearly. But if it's a forum for nurses on which non-nurses are welcome, that's a different situation.
When I post, I express opinions on threads that cover topics about which I "have a clue." I've never pretended to be a nurse of any sort. My professional area (HIM, or health information management) is even a part of my screen name! :) Perhaps I have misunderstood, but the original post of this thread and some of the others that followed don't only seem to be arguing against silly or extraneous comments from the inconsiderate/rude non-nurse posters, but against comments/advice from non-nurses at all (or in at least one case, visits from non-nurses at all). That doesn't exactly roll out the welcome mat for non-nurse allnurses members, regardless of how respectful, collegial, and helpful some of us may be.
I definitely understand the camaraderie aspect of allnurses, especially when it comes to vent threads. In my younger days as a journalist, I never would have survived if I hadn't been able to blow off steam with some of my coworkers from time to time. However, we (nurses, physicians, techs, HC admin/management, people from the various allied health fields) all work together in different parts of the same system, and we can all learn from each other. I guess I see penning "non medical/nursing persons" into their own fenced-off forum as counterproductive. After all, hearing from those with different perspectives can help each of us when dealing with issues in our professional lives.
So that's where I'm coming from on this topic as a non-nurse member of allnurses. Again, I'm not trying to disparage or flame anyone.
It all depends what you mean by experienced. Do you mean 10 plus or a year? Another good example: I been a home care nurse for 6 years with no hospital experience,do I stay out of the forums pertaining to hospitals? Can someone who is a gn working in a hospital for a month(they would obviously have more experience with the 1 month than I would) be qualified to participate in forums pertaining to hospitals?
If there is staff normally always around, or even if they are around at least a few times a day, maybe new topics in the general forum could be changed to having to be approved first. That way they can be moved or deleted or what not before it even hits the forum and only the related topics are posted. I have seen this done at a few places where there is a large volume of posters.
I also don't like the idea of approved threads only. As a night person, that sort of rule stinks.
Another site I visit has a different rule established for similar reasons! You can't start a thread in the general forums until you've made 15 posts. If you try to create a post you get an error page that explains you need to have 15 posts prior to creating a thread in the general section and then links to common sections that may be more useful for a new poster looking to create a thread (introduction area, student section, NCLEX perhaps?). It keeps the general section open to anyone but prevents the new and uninformed from posting in the wrong section while also eliminating the new account with one post troll threads.
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
Well I have been a nurse for 32 years and I am out here. I am still out there working (and working hard I might add) 4 days a week, still reading, still learning, still going. Teaching the new nurses, and some of the old ones. I don't mind help the new nurses or the students because I feel that it is part of my obligation to the profession. I had great help from nurses when I was "growing up" as a nurse. That was WAY before the internet. But now it is easier because we can tap into the brains of each other across the country and get ideas from everywhere. Sometimes we have good ideas, sometimes not. I have a vested interest in helping and supporting the newer nurses because I want a great nurse taking care of me when I am 80. So...All new nurses, feel free to send me a note. I will help you if I can.
SO, I suppose it would be nice if the experienced nurses could have their own forum discussing more scholarly things that contribute to our practice. I know, I sound like a snot. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time. Oldiebutgoodie
This is why I too lurk elsewhere if I want to gain just clinical knowledge.
I do love Allnurses, because it has taught me the invaluable "intangible" stuff. Maybe there could be a forum for only clinical conversation called "clinically speaking" or "clinical speakeasy" (that is if Moogie decides to show up :))
I really can't side with anyone here. The original poster of this thread is entitled to his/her opinion just as much as the "non nurses" are on giving thier opinions on whatever subject in whatever threads they post in. It's all a matter of opinion, and as long as the posters do not violate the rules of this website, then there should be no area of concern. Of course, the concern of this matter(part of it) is those of you who are annoyed by the opinions of non nurses replying to nursing threads, but they have a right to say what they feel too. So I really can't say who is right or wrong.:) Once the "non nurses" walk a mile in our shoes, their opinions will most likely change...until then, there is nothing we can do to change their mind(in most cases). So I find it much more interesting to read about the various perspectives of others no matter what the title behind their name is...makes the forum much more enjoyable, in my opinion. :)
Edit: I also wanted to add that those of you who are long time members should understand that new comers are looking for up to date feedback on what they are inquiring about. So using the search option results in older threads. Things(and the various opinions on whoever is on this forum at that moment, it's not always going to be the same person or same opinion in which the reader can also get a current understanding on the subject) do change, by the day actually!
I think the minority want to make allnurses exclusively nursing posters. I just want a forum for people with 10+years experience. Everyone welcome to read, and no sending in your license or having to prove you have experience- just on your say-so. There's a jaded feeling after you've seen management promise things again and again, and never come up with them. Great that new nurses are enthusiastic, and I would never take that away from them, but sometimes I don't want to hear it.
I just want a forum for people with 10+years experience.
Yeah I think that a separate category or an area of discussion as "part" of the forum is a good idea for people with 10 plus years of experience. Perhaps the topic or area of discussion could be titled "Nurses with 10 plus experience only." I'm hoping that you are not pertaining to this whole forum or the "General Nursing Discussion" made exclusively for that...wouldn't that be just a tad bit unfair?:)
My two cents, and yes, I have almost 20 years of experience. And Yes, I guess this is a VENT.
@ myself...
nursel56
7,122 Posts
I don't think anyone is suggesting non-nurses should be prevented from reading the threads, though. Many times I've noticed on all nurses that someone will post a vent, which typically is talking about the most egregious examples of a behavior, and all the people who do that thing in a responsible manner become defensive and are offended when most of the time the vent-ers had specific, extreme examples in mind.
I've seen it happen in the "text messaging vents", when the person is doing necessary texting of doctors or other departments as part of their job. We are not talking about you. The "you are part of the problem with healthcare if" thread, somehow had every nurse educator or perfectly wonderful nurse manager in a tizzy because it mentioned people who wore "business casual" to work. I don't think the author of that thread was talking about them. The really epic "gum chewing" thread was filled with people saying, "I tuck a small piece of peppermint gum in my cheek to stop me from barfing around certain smells". We are not talking about you.
I think a person who is a non-nurse and contributes, and they are not obnoxious and judgemental, I don't have a problem with it, and/or most of the time I can't tell. Unfortunately, the people who we are talking about, have no interest in being an active, collegial member of allnurses, and, most of the time they have no interest in hanging around.